Saturday, January 29, 2011
Huckabee's Fund Raising Letter
Jen and I will be doing the January 30th show. We'll be looking at the distortions, half-truths, and outright lies in a fund raising letter sent by Mike Huckabee. One of our members received it (we know not why) and she brought it to our attention. Please consider this post open to comments on the letter and the show.
36 comments:
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"Your's FREE for the gift of $35, $50, $100 or more!"
ReplyDeleteNot exactly free then.............
While watching the intro of last weeks show, a few comments made by Tracie and Jen made me give thought to my position of willful ignorance. I meant to reply to that post ( I still may ), but let me give some of my thoughts here.
ReplyDeleteI feel a certain amount of responsibility for my words and actions. I try to research for myself and come to my own conclusions. If someone has adopted a particular worldview, be it theistic or atheistic, the responsibility is theirs to understand the other side before repeating some false mantra.
Be it claiming ignorance of the law in an attempt to justify illegal activity, saying an atheist doesn't believe in god for some inane reason, or claiming that atheists are trying to remove prayer from public, the ignorance and dishonesty are blatant.
I was wrong in my views of willful ignorance before, and nothing makes that more evident than this falsehood of a letter from Huckabee.
"...it would have been unthinkable...[to] have someone refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."
ReplyDelete"...not from their version of an all-controlling Big Government."
So he's complaining that this so-called all-controlling government that the liberals are trying to create will allow people to refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance?
The Pledge has always seemed creepy to me, but then I didn't grow up with it.
There are obviously a lot of problems with the letter, just wanted to comment about the Pledge. It amazes me that it is used as a symbol of liberty and freedom when it is just the opposite.
There's really a painful amount of stupid in that letter.
ReplyDeleteI am absolutely tired of hearing these idiots say, "The FOUNDING FATHERS created America with the mindset that every should have the right to exercise their religious liberty!"
ReplyDeleteAll the while, they violently oppose any SINGLE piece of legislation, or any acts taken by the judicial system in order to PRESERVE religious freedom.
In essence, they're saying, "We can practice our religion, and establish it in public areas and institutions, but you sure as hell can't. We have the right and you don't."
If there is any method of thought built to truly represent the concept of the state and its function in political theory, it IS Atheism.
Wow..that letter is crazy full of crap. I love how they point out that their readers are fanatics or idiot simple people. Of whom they themselves are trying to take advantage of.
ReplyDeleteI wonder where the money will really go to. Im sure it will go to support this meeting of assholes trying to stop America from actually being independent of foreign oil.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/28/obama-richest-enemies-billionaires-summit?INTCMP=SRCH
If it came with a postage prepaid envelope to send the reply back, be sure to send it back empty. They still have to pay the postage.
ReplyDeletea few points for Mike Huckabee
ReplyDeleteAs great as the threat is that you and I face from radical, Islamic terrorists, an even greater menace ... has been gnawing away at the foundations of our great nation ... it comes directly from the radical liberals ... working harder than ever to drive God and ALL MENTION of religious faith from America's public life
Actually, wouldn't the threat be those like you that seek to undermine The Constitution?
targeted ... the "Pledge of Allegiance" because it contains the words "one nation, under God."
The original pledge, written by a baptist minister by the way, contains no reference to god. "Under God" wasn't added until the 1950s, so not really part of the founding of our nation is it?
atheist who brought the lawsuit to outlaw the motto "one nation under God" told The New York Times that he wanted to "ferret out all insidious uses of religion..."
We should protect insidious uses? I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
Prayer in schools is all but extinct ...
Well, mandated prayer is. Do you know the difference?
How long before the liberals and atheists are able to have the words "In God We Trust" stricken from bills and coins?
Same issue here, the motto was adopted in the 1950s, and added to paper money from the 19557 to 1966. Do you even know how old our country is?
Our union-dominated schools have been driving God out of America's history.
So, anti union, and trying to place god where he isn't. Religious freedom is part of American history, its one of the reasons this country is the way it is, but how dishonest to imply that this nation is founded on religion.
Our liberal-leaning courts have been outlawing God in all aspects of our public lives.
Any examples here, or just a blanket lie of a statement?
... media has mercilessly portrayed believers as either frightening fanatics or idiotic simpletons.
ReplyDeleteSo you start this letter with fear of Islamic terrorists, and then blame the media? I don't need the media to see an idiotic simpleton.
America is facing some of the most potentially devastating crises we have ever faced...
The crises you are implying actually seem to be caused by an adherence to religion, rather than a lack of it. Really, as one of the most religious nations, I fail to see how you can claim a lack of religion is causing these problems.
the threat of violent death by radical Islamist terrorists...
Again with the terrorists, wasn't it you who was just talking about portraying believers as fanatics?
America ... created out of the providence of God ...
um , no
people ... begged for a place where they could be free and raise their children in faith.
Yes, freedom of religion, you are free to believe what you want, not enforce it on others.
I need you to stand with me and tell the liberals that our rights, liberty and prosperity come from God, not from their version of an all-conrolling Big Government.
I thought it came from the people, remember the founding fathers you keep talking about? They wrote this thing called The Constitution, it has some great ideas about our rights, liberty and prosperity, can't find any mention of god though.
1. Train a new generation of leaders who will defend our religious liberty in our schools and government.
2. Actively fight - in court - the radical leftists and atheists of the ACLU and their backers, who want to drive all religion out of American life - YOUR life!
You are still blind to the fact that protecting the rights of all, help and strengthens the rights of all. Do you want to be told how to pray, or what to believe? Why don't you realize that your rights are protected too?
If you believe as Newt Gingrich and I do, that the Founding Fathers fully intended for expression of religious belief to be incorporated into American life ...
If, on the other hand, you have actually read what the founding fathers said and understand why religion is to be kept separate ...
I like the part toward the end where he starts making slippery slope arguments.
ReplyDeleteHow long do you think it will be before the liberals and atheists are able to have the words "In God We Trust" stricken from our bills and coins?
Hopefully not long!
Also, I love this part:
Frankly, after nearly a half-century of orchestrated, intentional liberal attacks on faith in both the courts and our schools, it shocks me to see just how successful they have been.
Isn't the "half-century" ago he's talking about when they started pasting religious shit all over everything in the first place? So, basically, he's admitting people have been fighting it from the beginning and gradually winning?
Nah, this whole letter is just one stupid use of the word "public" to try and make people think us "libruhls" want to turn the US into an anti-religious totalitarian state.
Last I knew there was no real issue with people expressing their religion in "public". The issue is with *GOVERNMENT ENDORSEMENT* of religious ideas...ANY religious ideas. It has no business doing it and the religious freedom of all citizens benefits from the government refraining from throwing it's hat in the ring with regard to religion.
If people want to have a prayer at a public war memorial, they are allowed. If a kid wants to pray before he eats lunch at school, he is allowed.
Seriously, in a country where getting tax exemption for your organization is as easy as saying "we're a church" and every politician has to pander to and pay lip service to religion, this letter is just infuriating.
It's a classic case of projection. Since people are trying to stop them from using the state to further their religious ideas, then the people fighting them MUST be doing so for the same reasons, right?! They want to use the state to force ATHEISM on everybody.
WRONG! The government exists to govern
Wait, what? 50 years ago no one would have refused to say the pledge? So what? the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1940 and 1943 who refused don't count?
ReplyDelete" portrayed believers as either frightening fanatics or idiotic simpletons."
ReplyDeleteOR?
Anyway to know for sure this was from Huckabee?
ReplyDeleteI would suggest they rename their organization "Renewing American Leadership" (ReAL) to "Fear And Lies Supplant Evidence". Somehow I doubt they'll take my suggestion...
ReplyDeleteIs there any confirmation that this was actually originated by Huckabee's people?
ReplyDeleteI've responded in great detail over on my own blog: Mike Huckabee Plays the Victim Card.
ReplyDeleteI had to stop reading after the first few paragraphs. I just couldn't go on.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWow...and this guy wants to run for president...
ReplyDeleteFor those skeptical about whether this is real, you can Google. The first few links show the connection between ReAL and Huckabee, and someone mentions getting a similar letter.
ReplyDeleteYou're probably not going to get an official online paper trail, however. This is just a mail-in fundraising letter, and a "narrowcast" letter at that; I only would expect to see it from people who bother to scan and upload it.
The God of Mike Huckabee is absolutely real and absolutely evil. Whether his god existed before time or whether it is a manifestation of the collective unconscious it needs to die.
ReplyDeleteImagine how advanced humanity would be if there were no Christian and Muslim induced dark ages. Do what you can to destroy this god or the idea of this god. KILL IT!
I'm taking American History right now. Somehow I think he missed that class in college.
ReplyDeleteWow.....Huckabee's letter is right out of McCarthy error, except they used communism in place of socialism. The atheism and liberalism apparently are oldies but goodies when it comes to any religion and politics trying to oppress people. Sad thing is, more and more people like Huckabee have come out of the wood work and I am sure more and more will. To me, these people are the real enemy. Let us not forget who Huckabee's friends include: US Politician Mike Huckabee and his close friends who helped create the “Kill the Gays” bill in Uganda, ” Mike Hucabee believes gays should have no rights, but they should also be killed, his best buddy who wants to see LGBT people killed or imprisoned for life in Uganda, (http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2010/12/mike_huckabees_lou_engle_problem.php). And as recently as August 2010, Huckabee praised the work of this friend,(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwp_wRiYipA&feature=player_embedded) a man named Rev. Lou Engle, who has made campaigning for the elimination of LGBT rights a central component of his life’s work.”
ReplyDelete@MAtheist "The crises you are implying actually seem to be caused by an adherence to religion, rather than a lack of it"
ReplyDeleteThis is such a good point and along with what another poster said about intellectual honesty, someone needs to point out to these people that it is hard to reason with groups who blindly follow an ancient book that justifies all their actions. The irony is disgusting
Oh and one more thing, the show is too short, it just starts hitting its stride and the hour is up! We need those 30 minutes back (or more)
ReplyDeleteWhile I can't say that I disagree with anything said about Huckabee and his letter, doesn't this episode violate the IRS restrictions on "electioneering" by non-profits? Just asking...
ReplyDelete@bigfatatheist
ReplyDeleteI don't think so...they were simply discussing the letter and pointing out the lies and distorted information. It's not like they were advocating someone else. But you may have a good point, I personally don't think that pointing out lies and false claims made by a moron violates anything...but that just MPO. Ha
I wish Don would have been more careful in his use of language on the show, especially when his entire segment is devote to pointing out inaccuracies in letter distributed by Huckabee - it felt like he was falling into some of the same traps that Huckabee's letter does. A number of times, Don talked about how people were "made to" pray, or "forced" to recite the pledge - and this being the basis of the lawsuit. But from what I can tell, that's not what the lawsuit is about at all - people being *forced* to do things has been illegal for the recent past, at least, and is today. The central problem is that the child who won't recite the pledge feels like an outsider, becomes separate from the rest of the class. That's about feelings and the perception of others - it's not about a child being *forced* to do something. But in the 15 minutes of the show that I've listened to so far, Don's made this mistake 2-3 times - and any *Christian* responder to Don's position can cherry pick his mistakes and ignore the more substantive problems with Huckabee's letter.
ReplyDelete@Richard:
ReplyDeleteSo you'd be happy if he'd used the word "coerced" instead of "forced"?
It is true that kids are not "forced" to recite the pledge, but if you wanna get technical, they're not really "forced" to do any of the school work either. No physical harm will befall them if they don't do their homework.
The issue here for me isn't whether or not the kids can opt out of saying the pledge or opt out of saying the "under god" part. The issue is that the school--a tax funded state organization--is starting instructional time every single day with a recitation that contains a clear religious endorsement in it.
Some people may say, "Well, it just says god...that can mean any god they want"
Those people are missing yet another point. The belief in a deity--namely one that we should thank for the state of our country...thus implying he/she/it is a certain type of omnipotent deity--is a religious idea, and as such has no place being promoted in a daily school ceremony that takes place during instructional time.
I'm not going to be a chat room troll, but Mister I-Have-Fifty-Rhetorical-Question-To-Which-I-Already-Know-The-Answers was *almost* as annoying as the incognito atheists who call in trying to prove Poe's Law.
ReplyDeleteEither way, they're not calling in to get help with a thorny issue, they're not bringing something different to say on the day's topic, they're just self-gratifying on the air.
I'm not saying to get them off the air, but some help staying focused would be in order. Otherwise, love the show as always.
@MethodSkeptic
ReplyDeleteIt seems like we're caught in a bit of a paradox. A lot of us live in vast deserts of irrationality, and welcome to company of others like us.
For some reason though, we don't really want to listen to other atheists babble. We'd rather listen to theists, in most circumstances.
So, we're going to collect into groups and not talk to one another?
I know this isn't always the case, but it seems to come up a lot, particularly for the show.
Constructive Criticism:
ReplyDeleteDon is cool, but needs to be paired with someone slightly more lively, like Matt.
Best host combinations:
- Tracie & Jen, they just kill.
- Matt and anyone.
- Jeff and Martin.
etc. I think a little more thought should go into host combos, in order to deliver maximum entertainment! ;)
I have a comment about polygamy. Don seemed a little dismissive of polygamy on the show and I am not sure why. Really I think polygamy should be legal. It seems to me that the polygamy issue is similar to the gay and lesbian marriage issue. The fact is that these people (polygamists) have chosen the family structure that works for them. Doesn't their union deserve the same protections as any other? Can anyone demonstrate that polyamorous relationships cause some sort of harm that should be protected against?
ReplyDeleteCertainly, there are some crimes that seem to be associated peripherally with polygamy, such as statutory rape and, apparently, welfare fraud, but it seems to me that legalizing and regulating this stuff will serve to mitigate that.
I used to (long ago) have some respect for Huckabee even though I disagreed with him on many things. From what I used to hear from him (which, granted, wasn't representative), he seemed much more civil than many of his far right-wing colleagues. He can put on the facade of civility, but I can respect him no more.
ReplyDeleteClaims that Atheists want "an America where ANY religious utterance is prohibited outside the walls of a private home or church [his emphasis]" just prove that Huckabee is either extremely stupid or extremely deceitful. I don't know which is worse, but I know I can tolerate neither.
Although this has nothing to do with the topics, someone should show Don in which camera to look when he's in a close-up shot.
ReplyDeleteIt's very distracting the way it is and you get the idea that he's not talking to the audience, but to the people in the studio.
Hey, guys. I've worked in politics for years and I've seen plenty of fundraising letters from conservative. I don't think this is authentic. First of all, this is Huckabee speaking for Newt's organization. That's bizarre. They have separate organizations and are both considering running for president, which would place them as running against each other. The story of the flag/allegiance is old news. I don't think they'd use that. Something seems off about this...seriously. Maybe I'm wrong. IDK.
ReplyDelete