Saturday, February 02, 2008

Creationist logic!

How can we ever stand up to this!?

Zakim [sic], we're going to try a little logic exercise here. I say the sky is blue.
You say the sky is green. Just because you never say the words " the sky is NOT blue" doesn't mean you're not disagreeing with me. If you tell everyone you meet "The sky is green, no matter what anyone else says" then you are saying, by NEGATION, that the sky is not blue. When a teacher asserts that "the world was created when stuff blew up" they are teaching, by negation, that it was not designed. When they say that everything came about by accident, they are teaching, by negation, that there is not design!
Simply put, the sky cannot be both blue and green. So, if I teach my children the sky is blue, then I'm teaching them it is NOT green.

That came to us from Lena, our latest creationist commenter, who's over in this comment thread. I guess it must be a brilliant analogy, because Lena assures us she's not some dipshit trailer trash hick, but that she's been "educated above the master's level," which I take to mean she has a master's degree but hasn't yet gone for her Ph.D., though it may not actually mean that at all. Indeed, she isn't clear about what she means by "educated above the master's level." You'd think if she had a master's degree, why wouldn't she just say, "I got a master's from [name of university]."

Anyway, I had a little trouble with her logic, such as it is. Somehow I was able to reconstruct the argument this way.

When a teacher teaches students that the first president of the United States was George Washington, they are teaching, by negation, that it was not Daffy Duck. Simply put, the first president could not have been both George Washington and Daffy Duck. If I'm teaching children it was George Washington, I am teaching them it was not Daffy Duck.

Apparently, when you teach childen anything, you are in fact teaching them the "negation" of whatever thing it is you aren't teaching them. Or something. So, like, if you teach children that 2 + 2 = 4, you are, by "negation," teaching them that 2 + 2 ≠ 5,622. And that's bad, I think she's saying. Or not.

Oh well, it's a little hard to noodle out what stunning point Lena thought she was making there, especially if she was trying to draw some analogy to the whole "teach the controversy" argument. I mean, anyone can go outside and see the sky is blue, at least if the weather's clear. We cannot go outside, however, and look at the sky and see the Christian God. Except in that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but I'm informed that was a special effect. So I guess, above-master's-level education or not, creationists seem to be chock full of stupid when it comes to arguing their beliefs.

Head on over there, and have fun.


  1. Just play moi's lill' YouTube film/research

    and, if'in that don't cool her mo other YouTube film/research "The Origin of Jesus Christ."

    Stay on groovin' safari,

  2. Reading the thread in which Lena graced us with her presence, these sentences stuck out...

    "( is usually advantageous to research your opponents point of view to see if they are correct, which I have done extensively and found your position lacking in evidence)"

    And in the very next post, also by Lena...

    "I am not well versed in the beliefs of atheists. I know it as lack of belief."

    So, from her "extensively" researching our point of view to "I am not well versed in the beliefs of atheists."


    I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, so as to not be accused of quote mining, and assume that the first quoted bit had to do with evolution, with the second bit dealing exclusively with the "beliefs" of atheism.

    Now, she made a slight dig earlier by admitting that she wasn't "from the south." So, I've gotta add that shit in...

    I am from the South. I'm a country boy from the backwoods of VA, and currently live in SC, yet, somehow, (Lo and Behold!), I'm intelligent enough to understand the basic theory of biological evolution as intimated by a few centuries of scientific inquiry and many million years of cumulative evidence.

    Despite my location of birth and lack of school-learnin' (I've only got an English degree), from what I've seen, Ms. Lena knows precisely Dick about evolution, and even less about atheism. Which means...

    I see no evidence of homework being done on either front.

    I can find a pretty comprehensive overview of evolution on the internet and read it in an hour. Or, if I wanted to be thorough, I could take a little jaunt down to damn near any library I choose.

    So, is Lena getting all her material from AiG, Ken Hovind (rap name: "Ken-Hova"), Ray Comfort, or (*shudder*) the DI?

  3. Why the crude comment about Lena not being trailer trash. Atheists are also the cruelest and most racist people I have met.

  4. Aetheists are also typically lonely and or emotionally vacant. They struggle daily with dealing with the real world; because the real world is full of so many ignorant people.

    Here is the simple truth: aetheists are modern day professional cowardly victims. You all know the victim label fits. Why? All your failures can be explained away because of your disbelief in a world of believers. The professional label is because of your strained and diligent efforts to prove your disbelief. The cowardly label is appropriate because you are currently not brave enough to reimmerse yourself in drugs or other vices which could be used as the crutch you so long for. Thus, the cowardly tag, when viewed in the context of victimhood is most appropriate for the professional aetheist.

  5. Did you make it here? You actually read the other posts. Why do aetheists seem to spend their entire lives attempting to legitimize disbelief? If not publically or semi-publically in chat rooms, then in their own minds --constantly proving to themselves that to believe is wrong or silly. You persist and read on because you doubt your own disbelief and for that will read on, despite yourself. Plus as the professional cowardly aetheist you are rushing to find fault in my lack of logic or reason or grammar. Your world is one where statements such as mine must be confronted, perhaps as a group and discussed. Maybe you will not justify my posts with a response because you have seen this sort of poster before and he is just looking for someone to argue against.

    What if I told you a secret?

  6. What secret do I speak: A secret regarding the human experience that is both univeral and yet unknow to the never few. This is a truth that few can accept and few have ever heard. Why I tell you this at this hour is a mystery even to me. Perhaps because I know few will read and fewer will believe I feel safe to tell.

    In Japan in 1953, a young woman from a rural area of Mt. Tiowa began complaining of pain in her stomach and chest. The something extraordinary and immediately arranged for the young woman to be sent to the US Army base near Tokyo. The doctor also immediately ceased practicing medicine and never spoke to anyone within the town after the examination of the young woman.

    Here is were this gets interesting...

  7. Various forms of Atheism had gained large support from many segments of the Japanesse epopulation following WWII. However, if you are still reading this you know you are in need of going to Church on Sunday. See you there.

    Hurry up and warn the others, it's what cowards do best.

  8. Troy, you can call us all the nasty names you want if that's what you have to do to make yourself feel superior. It's all you've got, after all. Since you can't prove your god exists, I mean.

    Thanks for the sterling example of "Christian love" this fine Sunday morning, trolly troll. If you expected us to get all defensive and rise to the bait, you missed by a country mile.

  9. Yawn! Troy, I think you should skip church this morning and catch up on your sleep.

  10. A wee parody, since human life is a parody of a true civilization, moi created.

    To the tune of George Harrison’s
    “Awaiting On You All”
    “Chanting The Name Of The Lord”)

    “Chanting The Name Of The Turd”
    “Chanting The Name Of Old Tor”)

    You may have a smooth grin/
    Your lies come out deadpan/
    great communicator, mental masturbator/
    spent a decade vegetatin’/

    If you open up your heart/
    blood will gush right out/
    your emotions are in your brain/
    not in replaceable chest spout/

    By chantin’ the name of old Tor and you will see/
    it’s worthless as chanting the name of any ole deity/
    when earthquakes or giant storms come from the sea/
    its as helpful as if you spent your whole life chantin’ Gumby/

    You need to cut a fart/
    all life needs to make gas/
    if you’re an instigator or alligator/
    you’re gonna get recycled/

    If you open up your heart/
    blood will gush right out/
    charge gnomes in you chest rent/
    `cause they’ll never help you out/

    By chantin’ the name of old Tor and you will see/
    it’s worthless as chanting the name of any ole deity/
    `god speed` or Lennon songs in space shuttles ain’t worth a pee/
    when they go boom you’re toast regardless of your theology/

    You do need some shelter/
    reporters love helter skelter/
    Invest in Mardi Gras beads, not flood wall needs,
    and churches go a floatin’

    If you open up your heart/
    there’ll be a blood stream/
    don’t let the creeps con you/
    with their minds so freakin’ mean/

    George sang, “Pope owns 51% of General Motors.”/
    Harrison was pissed, he only owned 49% of GM stores./
    Chant Jehovah, Krishna, Allah, Satan or Tor/
    They’re equally worthless to help you, that’s for sure/

    chanting the name of the turd tor hershman
    & you may listen.

    Oh, why do some Atheists write, just to soften the landing for any poor "True Seekers" once they find the awful - and - blowin' off steam - just as a thermal vent does.

    Stay on groovin' (DNA jungle) safari,

  11. The irony of a Christian calling atheists "professional victims" is enough to make me laugh uproariously.

    And vomit.

  12. Akusai, if they couldn't project their self-loathing, it would kill them.

  13. athiest cowards? cowards for not fearing god? the invivsible overseer that governs our lives? god sounds like an analogy for "big brother". us cowards, because we dont condone spiritual fraud? because we see that religion "mostly chrisianity" is nothing but a big capitalistic sellout of thier own faith. that you worship money and not life. it says it on the money. the fact is that athiesm is a very diverse opinion on life. one athiest may think differntly on philosophy than the other. just like you jerks have babtist catholics mormonds, ect. raceism is a issue of geographic orgin, or color. allthough i do feel that i am an extremist, in the fact that anytime you pricks try to come up to me a push your faith on me, or tell me that im a heathen, i fell like genocide. its a sickining idea. im in no way sad or depressed or void of emotion. im actully very happy with my philosophy. i do drugs, i dont drink, "alcohol is disgusting stuff." im in no way a burn out or a idiot or a addict. im a dude who dos'nt FEAR god like the cowards in thier church praying for forgivness because they were jerkin off or some shit. truth is that you are just a slave to another lame fucked up system. slaves to money, slaves to society, and slaves to god. i am personally sick of hearing about evangelics and holyrollers on the election campagn. im sick of the fact that our government system is run by this religious faction. church and state- separate. bullshit! some of us or mabie just myself would be so bold as to say that, religion is just a tool, just like you. a tool for the government. you laugh at us because we actully make sense. this story book, thats full of nonsensical "fact" or what you have dooped people into accepting as fact. point is that it has not been proven. also tho only reason why these ideals have gained support is because it cannot be disproven "russell's teapot theroy" makes alot more sense to me and almost everyone i know, even more than the bible, ive converted so many people to atheism from christianity, just by logical reasoning. you guys are so doubtful in your faith its funny.

    but hey have fun with your lies, thier not a part of my life, they wont fuck me over in the end, i wont look back on my life and be like "what if?" but keep your shit from our youth. keep it out of the school. i dont want my little siblings thinking that they will go to hell cuz they thought of something bad. or cuz they smoked a dooby. Or because they dont beleive in authority, or god.

    troy your a dick. you took a shot and missed dredfully. you call us cowards but yet you are the ones living in fear. i fail to see the corralation between atheism and japanese womans stomach pain.
    Also, no, no thankyou, keep church to yourself, robot.

    if any of you have a valid argument or agree, or wat ever. this is me

    p.s. yea man was made from sand and woman from a rib, how logical.

    (sarcasm of coarse.)

  14. Troy, give up your religion and become a secular humanist. It's the rational choice.

  15. Troy:
    The cowardly label is appropriate because you are currently not brave enough to reimmerse yourself in drugs or other vices which could be used as the crutch you so long for.

    wtf? Well, being Godless and all, I guess we may have a shortage of mind-altering crutches in our lives. So, which drugs are you brave enough to use? I'll have to make a note to stay away from those!

  16. rev jenner j hull, your assumption about the first post regarding evolution and the second speaking about atheism was correct. I'm glad to see someone actually reads the post and doesn't, indeed, "quote mine." and when I said the thing about the south, it was a response to Martin's snide comment about southerners and flyover states. Read my latest post.
    My parents are southern. I'm not dissing the south. I'm disagreeing with Martin's stereotype.
    And Martin?
    I didn't say WHERE my master's was from specifically because I think it is just a BAD idea to give a bunch of information about yourself on a website where you're flat-out disagreeing with a bunch of people.

  17. I'll admit that my analogy sucked, though, lol. I was being simplistic. Still, it worked.
    Read the post.


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