So the Rethuglican Taliban are on the warpath, and once again they're all about using the government to shove Jebus down all our throats (all the while pontificating that they got back into power because they're all about "less government," of course). So far, we have one gasbag here in Texas wasting no time in making sure that Ten Commandments slabs are erected in every school in the state. Just how many lawsuits over idiocy like that do we need before they figure it out? And the San Antonio paper has a poll, in which jackbooted theocratic thuggery is currently ahead by a two-thirds margin. We aren't Pharyngula (I and several other folks I know have emails out to PZ at the moment), but perhaps we can "AXP" this poll just a tad in the direction of religious freedom and sanity.
Anyway, to those of you on the left who sat out the mid-terms because you were disappointed that Obama didn't fix the world fast enough, welcome to your new Saudi America.
Addendum: PZ has now posted and the squid hordes have acted, and the poll is where it should be, at over 90% against.
Well, I voted no, and left a comment. I couldn't bear to read all the comments on there--it's soem pretty scary stuff--but I think I was the first to ask 'which ten commandments?'ReplyDelete
I actually voted this year. Getting rid of Rick "Freedom Hatin'" Perry was my motivation. That didn't turn out as planned. Now he's back to eight hour work weeks, while our state falls apart. The newspaper today (Fort Worth Star-Telegram) had an article about our state budget woes. All I could think about was how much our governor was costing us for his rent home. I could live comfortably on just his housing budget.ReplyDelete
Now we have these idiot politicians shoving god into the schools. That will undoubtably cost the taxpayers even more money in court battles. What do you wanna bet that he has a buddy that is a lawyer waiting to make a fortune in legal fees trying to fight this one in court.
On top of all that, like uzza said in the comment above, "which ten commandments?" Seriously, WTF?
I must say that I'm proud of all the godless folk who've shown up at the first link to leave comments in rebuttal to the capslock-raving fundies. Keep that coming! (You can sign in easily over there if you have a Facebook ID.) There's a part of living in a free country they won't enjoy being reminded of.ReplyDelete
I don't know if it's fair to say that people are disappointed because Obama 'didn't fix the world fast enough' - it seems pretty universally agreed-on that the Democrats haven't done anything remotely useful since Obama took office. I agree that the Republicans are the greater evil in this case, but that doesn't elevate the Democrats beyond useless by any stretch of the imagination.ReplyDelete
(posted to poll and comment section)ReplyDelete
The crucial issue here is acknowledgment versus endorsement.
Posting the 10C as part of a historical display about the origins of Western laws, like the US Supreme Court does, is acknowledgment.
Posting them in a public school, especially in the absence of other equivalent documents like Hammurabi's Code - comes across as endorsement.
You can talk all you like about heritage, tradition, culture and whatnot but the starkly clear objective here is religious advocacy.
And that's the problem.
Currently, the poll is 3.29% "Yes" and 96.7% "No"... and yet it seems as though the vast majority of the comments are from the "Yes" team. Interesting.ReplyDelete
"Anyway, to those of you on the left who sat out the mid-terms because you were disappointed that Obama didn't fix the world fast enough, welcome to your new Saudi America."ReplyDelete
At least keep in mind that many of us on the left find Obama unelectable due to his legal positions, and such. While you do not point to anyone in particular, this dances close to straw manning.
As for the rest of the Democrats, they had more control of the government than the Republicans did ten years ago and were FAR less effective. They could have gotten rid of the filibuster with a simple majority vote but they love it too much themselves.
If anyone wants me to vote Democrat, they will give me someone I like instead of just someone I can stomach. That is one reason why we are stuck with spineless, ineffectual leadership that ignores presidential actions that qualify for war criminal status. I am no one's tool. I am willing to accept the unpleasantness of temporary theocratic problems if that will galvanize the Democrats, moderates, and left-leaning folks into correcting their liberty and effectiveness issues.
Oh man, I am not getting sucked into this discussion.ReplyDelete
I didn't vote in the poll because I'm a durty forriner and a filthy red-coated imperialist brit to boot, but I really do find it amusing that the religious right in America seem completely unaware of what your constitution says.ReplyDelete
I really wish I could sit back and gently mock America for this kind of madness... but... well, "Church of England." Damn it. Why are my moments of smug superiority always kicked in the shins by reality?
@Derek - "it seems pretty universally agreed-on that the Democrats haven't done anything remotely useful since Obama took office."ReplyDelete
Not to turn this into a political thread, but I'm tired of hearing this over and over. If one wants to argue that they don't like what was accomplished, that is one thing, but to say nothing happened? Google can really help you cure this oversight.
Accomplishments (short list):
$780 billion stimulus, Health Care Reform, Expansion of Americorp, Expansion of SCHIP, Credit Card Reform, Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act (equal pay for women), Added 2 million acres of national wilderness, expanded federal science and research funding including stem cell research, restarted nuclear non-proliferation talks, Cash for Clunkers, closed many off shore tax havens, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor.
If you don't think he did enough in certain areas, gripe about specifics, but don't say the Dems didn't do anything. The main argument of their opposition is that they did too much, too fast.
@Craig - I didn't say that 'nothing happened' I said that nothing 'remotely useful' happened. I pretty much stand by my statement. Most of what you mentioned is debatable as being useful or not, none of them are as cut-and-dried as you make them out to be (pork is as prevalent as it's ever been), and Democrat voters are OBVIOUSLY unhappy with Democrats in office. This is a simple observation.ReplyDelete
One thought I had was, why not go around to all these commandment monuments and underline the one about graven images, and see how long it will take for people to get the joke.ReplyDelete
Posting the Ten Commandments on schools will make them better like painting stripes on my car will make it faster.ReplyDelete
And it's illegal.
@Craig: Obama accomplishments so far: the escalation in the war in Afghanistan, troops and mercenaries in Iraq forever, the massive increase in civilian-slaughtering drone attacks, the virtually wholesale embrace of the Bush/Cheney civil liberties architecture, the defense of Don't-Ask/Don't-Tell and DOMA, the multi-billion-dollar bailout of Wall Street, the failure to stem the tide of the foreclosure crisis, and the elimination of the public option. What would be substantially different here under a McCain/Palin administration? Democrats have demonstrated time and again that they're ineffectual advocates for progressive causes. Nothing will change for the better until the a green party or something similar takes the Democrats' place. Probably won't be in my lifetime, but I'm just audacious enough to hope otherwise.ReplyDelete
It seems to me that teabagger's(conservative, christian republican's) are behind a good deal of the described movement nation wide. However, I'm not too aware of fundamentalist or conservative christian's trying to push their agenda on public school's here in Albuquerque, NM as they have a lot of private christianized schools already. It always sounds like Texas atheist's are dealing with fundamentalist's while New Mexico deals with conservatives which aren't supposed to be as bad?ReplyDelete
It is puzzling that the only 10C that one sees is the first draft that god went on to correct. Perhaps cooking instructions do make the rewrite seem a bit trivial.ReplyDelete
I wonder how many believers can list the big ten. Would it be more or less than the number who can name the seven dwarfs?
At least the squid have spoken!
Hey, I saw this post before getting to Pharyngula, so I used your link to join in.ReplyDelete
For the way the votes are weighted at this point it sure is disturbing how many 'pro' comments are there, and how delusional they are.
As far as the voting went, I did get out and vote. Mainly because there were propositions and amendments to vote on here in MO.
I'm pretty thoroughly disgusted with the choices to vote for, though. I held my nose and voted for a Democrat or two. But the options are so horrible. My option for a vote for Representative was a loony, ignorant Republican, an even more loony Libertarian, or a Democrat who was a Republican until last year or so when he got fired by the Republican governor at the time.
I agree with Derek, I think. The only selling point on the Democrats is that they're slightly less bad than the Republicans. That's hardly something to engender enthusiasm. They have no spine when it comes to important topics, and that's if they're not chasing the Republicans toward the right wing.
Comment posted with poll: "It would definitely help with so many kids taking guns to school, dishonoring their parents, lying, stealing, doing immoral things and most importantly not giving God the recognition he deserves."ReplyDelete
And a big slab with words carved into it would stop these things from happening how? If you are praying with your kids and taking them to church and they are still doing these things, the 10C Slab won't help you. And if parents AREN'T doing those things, the 10C Slab won't help. This is the silliest comment I saw there... among a plethora of silly comments.
martin wagner does not exist....ReplyDelete
atheists, we're gonna cut off your heads...
THE HIGH PRICE OF REVOLUTION
Stone v. Graham, 1980 (449 U.S. 39 ).ReplyDelete
Can somebody forward this asshat the Supreme Court's decision from 30 years ago? Thanks.
"Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that a Kentucky statute requiring the posting of a copy of the Ten Commandments, purchased with private contributions, on the wall of each public classroom in the State, was unconstitutional, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, because it lacked a secular legislative purpose."
I was thinking about this a lot the other day. I work in a Catholic school and I am not Catholic and even THEY don't require me to lead a class in prayer, although many other teachers do. I find that quite decent of them, I have to say. I am so pleased by their tolerance;they also teach comparative religion and appreciate evolution. AND I live in Texas! If I can work it out in my micro version of the state at large, why can't we all just get along.ReplyDelete
And I thought that it is long "disproven" that the 10C are the basis of American law.
I found a nice clear, Texas style version of the 10C. As far as American laws, I can see #s 6(maybe),7 and 9 as laws here in the good old US of A. And aren't those really appropos to any moderately functioning society?ReplyDelete
Cowboy's Ten Commandments posted on the wall at Cross Trails Church in Fairlie, TX
(1) Just one God.
(2) Honor yer Ma & Pa.
(3) No telling tales or gossipin'.
(4) Git yourself to Sunday meeting.
(5) Put nothin' before God.
(6) No foolin' around with another fellow's gal.
(7) No killin'.
(8) Watch yer mouth.
(9) Don't take what ain't yers.
(10) Don't be hankerin' for yer buddy's stuff.
USA=Titanic. Economic recession/bank collapse/et. al = iceburg.ReplyDelete
GWB=Captain. "Stay the course."
DEMS=But Cap'n, we're headed straight for that iceburg!"
GWB=I said 'stay the course!"
McCain=Iceburg? There's no iceburg! We need to stay the course. We need to prevent gays from getting married and serving openly in the military. And ban abortions. Pay no attention to that big thing behind the curtain.
OBAMA: CHANGE! I promise that if you let me be the captain of this ship, I will completely change course and we'll never even get close to that iceburg! I guarantee it!
OBAMA: I never said change was going to be easy. The Titanic's a huge ship. It can't be turned quickly, so sure, we're going to have some damage, but we WILL get away. Eventually. I think.
VOTERS: THROW THE BUM OUT! WE WANT A NEW CAPTAIN!
TEA PARTY: Pray to GOD and man the lifeboats, everybody! We're jumping off this sinking ship! You can join us, but you must follow our rules, or we'll kick you off the lifeboat and you can drown with the rest of those libronazisocialists! ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS, JUMPING OFF THE BOAT, USE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS TO KEEP YOURSELF AFLOAT!
I'd almost be in favor of this if they'd post all three versions of the ten commandments, side by side.ReplyDelete
Sue, that is the most poetic metaphor I've heard in a while. :)ReplyDelete
While the Dems certainly have been prize fuckups, it's completely false to claim nothing of significance has happened under the current administration. We're presently in the ninth straight month of job growth and the economy is sluggishly improving at about a 2% rate. I'd say that's one thing that's different than if McCain were president. Oh, and the little matter of Sarah Palin one heartbeat away from the Oval Office.ReplyDelete
Kazim: I like best the knowledge that the TC are stone tablets. The only place people using them to float on are gonna go is straight to the bottom. :)ReplyDelete
Naughty Sue. No biscuit.
Martin: What hoses me the most is continuing to hear about how Palin is somehow this morally superior being and how her morality trumps Obama's intellect.ReplyDelete
Her oldest "abstinence only" kid gets herself knocked up, and "oh, she's a child, don't blame her." Who should we blame? "Oh, don't blame her mother, either. Blame society!"
And now we're hearing that another of her "morally upright" kids just slammed a teenage kid who disagreed with how wonderful Palin's TV show was and Willow slammed back calling him gay and a faggot, spelling words that I had learned in first freaking grade completely wrong. "Your a faggot! Your ugly!"
What do the fans of "Palin's morality trumps Obama's intellect" say? "Oh, don't yell at Willow, she's just a kid!"
Same age as the kids who bullied those other kids into suicide.
So it appears that "value grizzly" Palin can have bigoted tramps for kids and she gets a free pass. She has raised her family to do all the things that would make a REAL moral person turn over in his grave.
Could you imagine the outcry if either of Obama's daughters acted like that?
You want to talk about class? You want to talk about moral values and a moral upbringing? You only have to look no further than Obama's daughters. Their "immoral intellectual father" raised them up to be a thousand times the moral beings of the Palin crew. But the teabaggers refuse to even see it.
Their Emperor has stunning clothes, and damn the rest of us who are tired of staring at her saggy naked body.
Off topic, and apology.
OK, here's a funny one, after posting my no vote I started reading some of the comments. The first one I read was from a yesser who ended with "they should go back the way they came from by george". I thought how cute, some old timer with his by george, he probably say gall dang it too.ReplyDelete
Then I read another post that ended "by pete", and thought hey, they're making fun of him, until I read another by so and so, and another...
Sometimes I can be a real dope! -grin-
You've moved past brushes and are now painting with a steamroller.ReplyDelete
I would just like to point out that one can be a fiscal conservative and not a religious nut. It is possible to disagree with government policies, yet value the separation of church and state.