To be absolutely clear: everyone on the show thinks Zeitgeist is pretty much crap. You can read this unofficial position statement for more details. It's bad history, bad skepticism, and especially bad movie making.
A sampling of recent emails:
Tim from the Netherlands, 6/15:
I recently saw your videos on YouTube and I completely agree with you. I never considered myself an atheist in the past but i was never religious in the past. Although now that I think about I think I could be an atheist. Well the main point of the email is the tell you about "The Zeitgeist Movement". You may have heard about it, you may not. I just want to bring more awareness.
Claudio in Brazil, 6/18:
I wish u guys talk about the movie Zeitgeist, is a great documentary about the world society.
If you like it like me let me know when u gonna talk about it please
Jake, 6/22:
Anyways, I just finished watching the religious portion of Zeitgeist - The Movie and I think it is something everyone should see. I searched YouTube and I could not locate anything about the subject matter being discussed on AE. If I'm incorrect, please forgive me for conducting such a shoddy cursory check. However, if the material is something you haven't covered in depth, will you address the Horus/Jesus connection, to the extent the movie does? As always, I'll be watching!
Cory in Illinois, 6/23:
Have you heard of the movie Zeitgeist? It was created by a man named Peter Joseph, and is an amazing documentary about the institutions of this world and how they are designed and created simply for public control, the religious institution being one of them. You should really watch these. The main reason that I took to them so quickly is because he backs every single claim with solid, indisputable evidence. The first movie aims to reveal the truth to the people. The second movie is to show how we as a species can fix our global social system and improve our lives greatly.
Seriously, guys, WTF? Zeitgeist sucks. Are we being too subtle for you?
@kazim
ReplyDeleteZeitgeist sucks. Are we being too subtle for you?
Could you tell me your real position on Zeitgeist?
// ducks..
http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/
ReplyDeleteA very handy rebuttal. Primarily because it includes what Zeitgeist proponents seem to fear most - citation.
I guess they're like the psi proponents who expect they can win by being too dense to argue with.
ReplyDeleteI actually have a copy of a Zeitgeist DVD in my desk drawer that one of my girlfriends students gave her because that person thought it was so good and everyone should watch it. It has been sitting there for a little over a year, and I have not watched it yet. I want to, at some point, but I have not found a two hour period of time that I could afford to never get back yet.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with zeitgeist is really that it is propaganda for a collage of unsupported claims.
ReplyDeleteAppeals to emotion rather than arguments and lack of blanced reporting should be enough for anyone to figure out that this is not a documentary.
If you blindly believe Zeitgeist is a fair depiction of the world then you are no better than a blind believer of religioun X.
Now ask yourself, if the zeitgeist message was true then why did the movie makers have to resort to propaganda? Why not just let the evidence speak for itself?
yeah,...i think the resurgence may have to do with the new rebuttal movie against it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E336504BEBE7BCF0
other than that i have no clue.
Thanks a lot for that link, ChristOnIce. I haven't seen it before, and it looks like it will make some great reading. I'm really enjoying the dissecting of all the out of context quotes in the "taxes are illegal" section of Zeitgeist.
ReplyDeleteI'm just thankful I had a childhood interest in Egyptology. When I heard about the gross oversimplification of Egyptian Mythology in Zeitgeist, I immediately thought 'BULLSHIT!'
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the first part is the most likely to be believed, because it *sounds* reasonable enough. Thus it creates an impression of "Oh wow, these guys are right about stuff!" to foreshadow the other two parts.
On a semi-related note, just heard the last episode and LOL at Alex Jones calling in with a fake name and a BRILLIANT argument...
"How can 2 + 2 equal 4, unless there's a God to make 2 + 2 = 4, otherwise 2 + 2 wouldn't equal 4!"
@heffaklump:
ReplyDeleteThe problem with zeitgeist is really that it is propaganda for a collage of unsupported claims.
I mostly agree up to this point.
Appeals to emotion rather than arguments and lack of blanced reporting should be enough for anyone to figure out that this is not a documentary.
Here, I disagree. A documentary is not, and need not be a scientific report. Some documentaries are, certainly, but many legitimately fall under the category of a video editorial. Editorials are an effort to persuade, and as such, they need not contain "balance." And while emotional appeals are no substitute for reasoned arguments, they absolutely have their place in persuasive discussions. See my lecture on evangelical atheism for more of my views.
There is a pervasive belief in "balance" with which I disagree, which consists of reporting both sides of a story on equal footing, even if one side clearly has little or no merit. This is what "balance" often implies in the Fox News slogan, and it's what creationists appeal to when they say "We just want to teach the strengths and weaknesses of evolution" or complain about being unfairly "expelled" from science classes.
If you had just stopped at "Zeitgeist is bad because it's full of unsupported claims" I would be totally with you.
One thing that I note about Zietgeist that sets off my bullshit sensors is the non-sequitor concerning taxes.
ReplyDelete"Egyptology, shared myth, astrology, TAXES ARE TEH DEVIL!!!11!!!"
How the hell does a universally agreed form of finance flow into any of the other god stuff?
Maybe the influx is due partially to your reaching a wider audience, one that may not know of the groups coverage of this topic.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree the Zeitgeist, the FIRST movie, sucks big time. However, a sequel was released last October, and it's mind blowing.
ReplyDeleteThis movie isn't a "conspiracy theory" film, it doesn't talk about the "New World Order", it doesn't talk religion or the Federal reserve.
This movie is about the idea of money, scarcity, and capitalism.
It's called Zeitgeist: Addendum, and you should DEFINITELY watch it. It's available on Zeitgeistmovie.com, so tell me what you think.
I completely agree the Zeitgeist, the FIRST movie, sucks big time. However, a sequel was released last October, and it's mind blowing.
ReplyDeleteThis movie isn't a "conspiracy theory" film, it doesn't talk about the "New World Order", it doesn't talk religion or the Federal reserve.
This movie is about the idea of money, scarcity, and capitalism.
It's called Zeitgeist: Addendum, and you should DEFINITELY watch it. It's available on Zeitgeistmovie.com, so tell me what you think."
If a person gives me a wraped present and I open it up and it contains a pile of human turds, and then later that same person gives me another present saying "the last one sucked but THIS ONE IS AWESOME" should i even bother opening the box before I throw it out?
I want to draw your attention to a mistake you've made on this thread.
ReplyDeleteThe first email you quote references something called 'The Zeitgeist Movement'.
I find it unlikely that you actually know what that is, since it is not about the movie Zeitgeist, but is the activism arm of an organization known as The Venus Project. This is a different issue, a different topic of discussion entirely, yet you referenced it right at the top.
I'd make an educated guess that you haven't heard of The Venus Project, Jacque Fresco, and a Resource Based Economy. I would rather the movement did not have the name Zeitgeist at the beginning of it, for this exact reason that it will be synonymous or fungible in regards to the Zeitgeist movie (complete with it's religious and 9/11 assertions I do not ascribe to).
You end by saying 'seriously guys, Zeitgeist sucks.' Fair enough, I'm not in love with it myself nor do I agree with many aspects. I encourage you to find a better email to place at the top, since 'Zeitgeist' the movie is not the Zeitgeist Movement. If you're interested in putting forward correct information, not misinforming people, being misinformed yourselves, and intellectual honesty in general, you should really do that.
I watch your show every week so I am well aware you want to be as well informed on issues you take on as possible. This top email indicates that you are not entirely informed on 'the Zeitgeist Movement'. I'm not enthusing about 'TZM' and saying 'you should check it out', I'm pointing out a mistake that you have actually made, probably unwittingly as you represent things honestly. I think this is an innocent mistake on your part.
I'm simply leaving this message to correct a mistake and help you, other than that, forever keep the gloves off and have at it, because I love you Texans.
I can agree with you on some of the 9-11 claims and conspiracies regarding Zeitgeist parts 2, 3 & addendum but, I cannot agree with hardly anything you've said about ZG part 1. I've done my own research long before the Zeitgeist movie was ever heard of and your claims are wrong - embarrassingly wrong and you're embarrassing all atheists by repeating the nonsense I've seen in your youtube video #634. The comments there by 'Hercules2345' proved that.
ReplyDeleteI notice that most here at the atheist experience consistently commit the fallacy of 'guilt by association' by conflating part 1/Acharya S with everything else. Acharya S had nothing to do with parts 2 or 3. She has consistently substantiated part 1 when it has come from her own work and I've yet to see anyone here go to her website or videos or forum or read any of her books or even make any attempt to contact her at all. So, the anti-Acharya S position here is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets. As an atheist, I find your website & videos regarding ZG1 & Acharya S a monumental disappointment that isn't any better than fundy Xians. Take that as constructive criticism.
If you have any interest in being honest invite her on your show via the phone or something but, it would be wise if you knew her work first or you will look like a dumb-ass. Or do a show on her mythicist position.
Read Acharya's Frequently Asked Questions at her Freethought Nation forum.
Read this FAQ & you'll see why atheists should not be SMEARING her: "Do atheists disagree with Acharya's basic premise?"
Search for the "Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence" thread and the post "The New ZEITGEIST Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)"
Ciao