I've been informed that recent episodes of the TV show are now online via Google Video, with more on the way. You can search for them there, or use the links here. (Episodes 475, 479, and 482 now available; scroll down to the table and select "video".) Hat tip to Don Baker for this.
How come everyone in the picture is white? KKK in a cheap tuxedo?
ReplyDeleteROFLMAO
Any plans to start doing this weekly? If you add video episodes to Google video, y'all can have a permanent archive online (compared to the 10 episode podcast).
ReplyDeleteYes, there are several hosts--and all the hosts are Caucasian--I believe that's the proper term? But if you take the time to read the bios, you'll find that some are also Jews.
ReplyDeleteThis is very different than when I used to attend (for a couple decades) the many Church of Christs in Orlando, FL. Amazingly, each congregation had about 100 or so members. And I can't recall a single African American member. Some members even openly used the "N" word--which I've never seen or heard used in atheist forums or among any of the ACA members. It's a nice change in my company.
Oh--and not surprisingly, I don't remember any Jews in any of the churches I attended, either. I guess I could say something like "Nazis in cheap tuxedos?"--but that would be totally ignorant comment, wouldn't it?
I guess, using your logic, being a Xian offers no immunity to the "white only KKK" syndrome or the "Jew hating Nazi" syndrome.
-th
***
Tracie,
ReplyDeleteI'm an agnostic. I neither believe nor disbelieve in God. Interestingly I didn't see my position in the FAQ.
http://www.atheist-community.org/faq/#atheist_agnostic
But here's what I do believe. I believe not all religions are equal. Some are good and some are bad. While I don't personally ascribe to any of them I'm quite content to live in the moderate, tolerant, predominantly Christian culture that surrounds me. Generally the moral code is good (although I like to point out to my Christian friends that Jesus was probably a vegetarian and if they want to believe in him they really should be too) and is putatively given by a higher authority who knows if you've been naughty or nice and will judge you after you die. That's not a bad thing.
The reason I stopped by here is I made a comment on Sandwalk http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/01/can-anyone-answer-this-question.html and Martin Wagner characterized it as a racist crack. A little checking up on Martin found him in my hometown and then the picture of the cable TV crew with all white people in it made his comment seem a tad hypocritical. I couldn't resist making the dig.
So how would I fit into the Atheist Experience? I'm definitely an agnostic which is often called a weak atheist. I'm also a very well known ID advocate but I'm of the Francis Crick directed-panspermia persuasion which is rare amongst IDers. I'm a good friend Bill Dembski's and do most of the management and a lot of writing on his blog http://www.uncommon.descent.com
If ID wasn't made into a strawman by anti-religionists more people might realize it fits fine with an atheist view like mine and even yours. In fact David Berlinski is a prominent IDer and he's a self-described atheist Jew. Acknowledging the possibility that life and the universe doesn't just have the appearance of design but is actually designed is not anti-atheist. The only thing that can't be reconciled with it is a positive belief that modern humans are the only intelligent agency that ever changed the course of events in the universe through an act of will. Anyone that believes that should be beaten with well worn copy of 2001: A Space Odyssey wielded by a noodly appendage until they regain their senses.
I don't see how your response addresses anything I said. You unfairly classified a group of several people as racist in your mind simply because they're isn't anyone among them who is not Caucasian.
ReplyDeleteIf your beef truly is with Martin--let me point out that Martin isn't among them. And I don't see how your all-over-the-board, off-topic response justifies your original unfair accusation toward this group.
You never actually addressed my point that what you said was a blatantly unfair mischaracterization of a group of people you don't know--for no other reason than none of them represent a racial minority. Then you use an acronym to illustrate that you had yourself a good chuckle about how amusing your found your ignorant mud-slinging.
This is great news!!!
ReplyDeleteGreat to see the people whose voice is so familiar. Please keep posting the videos.
And by the way davescot, stop being such an asshat...
Okay. Fair's fair. Are there any non-whites involved with this show? I sure couldn't find any but that doesn't mean there are none. It looks to me like a bunch of silly-ass spoiled white kids making a big stink about nothing. Prove me wrong. Asshats indeed.
ReplyDeleteI prefer just listening to the MP3s, but it's good that the videos are being put online. I wonder how it will affect DVD sales, though.
ReplyDeleteI'm not aware if there are any non-whites currently involved with the show, but I can say that if a person with blue skin and antennae wanted to sign up and contribute, that person would be more than welcome. So save the playground taunts for recess over at UD, Dave, where you'll at least have an appreciative audience of like-minded — ahem — individuals.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you that religion is "nothing," but the fact is a lot of people (like, oh, Bill Dembski) think it's "something," and feel wholly entitled to make nuisances of themselves because of it. So for now, making a big stink is entirely appropriate.
Your "logic," that if non-Caucasians don't wish to participate in an event, then Caucasians who _do_ participate are automatically racist--is really ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteThe invite to help out with the show or join ACA is open to _anyone_ who wants to sign up to participate. I have never gotten any other impression from anyone involved in the show or the association.
Minorities come in many forms--Jews, gays, people with disabilities--how about Italians? I am aware of quite a number of racial slurs that are meant to discribe my own racial heritage. But maybe my skin isn't quite dark enough for you to consider me a minority? "Race" isn't a scientific classification. It's a social classification. If you want to get technical and look at scientific classifications, I'm Mediterranean--not European. People in the KKK probably wouldn't take kindly to me dating one of their boys.
But to me, this is a nonissue. The issue is that you seem to think that groups of people you think of as "white (enough)," who get together in a group are automatically "racist." I disagree, and pointed out that by your logic, most fundie Xian churches could be labeled all sorts of slurs. I wouldn't label them that way, however, because 100+ whites grouping together in a church ISN'T racist--since they don't _disallow_ minority participation. If minorities _choose_ not to participate in their congregation--I cannot logically accuse the church members of racism.
Your logic is fatally flawed. And just because you're bent that Martin called you on a racist comment, I think it's really childish to come onto a public forum and start hurling insults at completely uninvolved people--people you have no contact or history with--of racism on the level of a group with a reputation for lynchings and opposition to equality and civil rights legislation.
Your connections are illogical and your assumptions are incorrect.
Addressing the agnostic label:
ReplyDeleteAgnostic means, literally, "without knowledge." With regard to religious stance, it is the position that there is no knowledge/information upon which to base a determination on the existence of god/s.
If a person accepts that there is no information or knowledge regarding god/s, then I have trouble reasoning how a person could then logically go on to say, "I believe in gods." Or, if they can't make a positive statement of belief--If they cannot say, "I believe in a god/gods"--then they are "without belief" in god/s--which is the very definition of "atheist."
An "agnostic believer" can exist--it's simply a person who is not using logic to support a position of belief. The only logical agnostic stance I have ever been able to construct is one of "agnostic atheist." If there is insufficient evidence to support belief--then there is no logical reason to hold to a belief. There is no such thing as an "unsure" category. "Unsure" _means_, logically, that I do not hold a belief.
If I am "unsure" that X exists. Then I can't say "I believe" X exists. I am, then, not a believer in X. I am a nonbeliever with regard to X.
A logical agnostic will automatically be a nonbeliever, unless there is an avenue of logic about this that I have not yet considered.
If the arguments DaveScot uses to establish the existence of his intelligent designer are of the same caliber he is using here to establish that we are all a bunch of racist hypocrites, I'm thinking he and Dembski are in an even lamer position than everyone thinks.
ReplyDeleteLOL
ReplyDeleteYou people are just as ridiculous as the religious nutballs that have shows on Austin public access. Poster children for "Keep Austin Weird".
As for all the protests that there's no specific reason for the cast & crew being all white the fact remains that for some reason it IS all white. I suspect the reason is because racial minorities have real problems to contend with in life and won't waste their time on this silly shit. But that's just my opinion and even if it's wrong there's still some reason why they're staying away.
Quote: "I suspect the reason is because racial minorities have real problems to contend with in life and won't waste their time on this silly shit."
ReplyDeleteActually, you're changing your story. If you go back and read your original comment--above, on this very strand--_you_ said the reason there are no "minorities" is because you believe the cast is racist. Or have you already forgotten that you said that, and that THAT is the "reason" we're discussing?
Here's what you're doing in a nutshell: Since you can't support your claim that "because the cast is non-ethnic-minority, they're all automatically racist," you're now going to switch out that argument for a new one: "since you're not minorities you don't know anything about how hard life can be." And it's just another ad hominem.
Rather than quietly changing your "reason" to something totally different than your original "reason" (and hope nobody notices the ol' switcharoo), can you at least first just be honest and admit you're original argument was illogical and fallacious--before you move on and change your story?
I won't hold my breath for an apology to those you irrationally--and wrongly--accused of racism--but just an admission that your argument was so bad you had to abandon it would be something to show you're not totally without some sort of integrity.
Off topic, but ironically, do you recognize that the comment
ReplyDelete"...because racial minorities have real problems to contend with in life..."
is a racially prejudiced statement?
1. You are making a prejudicial connection that just because someone is a member of a racial minority they automatically have "real problems." It's no different than saying African Americans have really great rhythm.
2. You're also making a prejudicial connection that since the cast/crew of the show is not what you accept as minority (because of their Caucasian-ness), they are not in the category of people who might have "real problems."
And you appear to be basing it all on race.
I find these unsupported assumptions (prejudices) interesting. I do recognize that taken as a whole, there are certain racially defined social groups who face certain social pressures that some other racially defined groups do not.
However, your latest connection, that the reason there are _no_ racial minorities on the program is due to their "real problems," presumes that there are no exceptions to those social pressures. And, indeed, there are many successful people who are in groups defined as racial minorities. You seem to be discounting the possibility of the existence of those individuals.
Let me also add that there are many people in ACA and aligned with the TV program who have what just about anyone would accept as "real problems" to contend with in their lives. So, your assumption that Caucasian atheists are--I believe the term you used was "spoiled white kids"--is totally incorrect.
You seem to make a lot of assumptions about things for which you have insufficient information. And you seem focused on bringing race into play on a field where it really isn't a factor--except in your own mind. Nobody at ACA that I've ever met is concerned with race. It's not a race association, it's an atheist association. Any color atheists are welcome to join (or NOT to join).
If it helps, people without social prejudice are few and far between. However, if you harbor one, the honest thing to do is acknowledge it--not defend it and deny it. For example, just recently I referred to a Web site creator as "he"--it turned out to be a woman. That's a social prejudice I obviously harbor. I thanked the person who pointed it out, admitted my faux pas, and added "good catch"--because it was a good catch. In the future I can be more mindful of it.
You say prejudicial things--with regard to race. It's not a crime. But there's no reason to go on a tear just because someone points it out.