tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post2241745329290227972..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: How to Stack a DeckUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32790631158701112332009-05-03T14:02:00.000-05:002009-05-03T14:02:00.000-05:00I'd like to see more done with sleep paralysis -- ...I'd like to see more done with sleep paralysis -- or at least I'd like to see the research on the phenomenon more publicized (like that Harvard study). The studies provide a fascinating look at how structures of the brain, or events in the brain, can manifest themselves in some kind of allegorical, narrative form, like a dream. It's a kind of hyper-complex version of pareidolia.<br /><br />A few recent studies, <A HREF="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060303205611.htm" REL="nofollow">like one at the Max Planck Institute</A>, have shown how altruistic behavior is hardwired in both human and chimpanzee brains. Such studies suggest that morality isn't something handed down from on high, but is something we're born with. Couple that with some of the work done in psychology about how structures of the brain are reflected in narrative forms, like writing and dreams, and you're heading into some interesting territory. <br /><br />If sleep paralysis <I>is</I> a form of hyper-pareidolia, a kind of allegorical, narrative manifestation of something going on in the brain, it could provide a window into how hardwired altruistic behaviors become externally allegorized in other narrative forms, like myths and scriptures. Such work could show how pre-scientific people could logically end up mistaking themselves for an external, "god in the gaps"-type stand-in offering moral decrees, when those decrees were always already part of being human.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12217817004312113348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-39216988106649315942009-04-30T04:13:00.000-05:002009-04-30T04:13:00.000-05:00@Myrna
I would say to weight the pragmatic value o...@Myrna<br />I would say to weight the pragmatic value of such things. I'm sure you parents won't keep your brother isolated forever and I'm sure if secular humanism and atheism are intellectually compelling options (Or more intellectually compelling that being a Jehovah's Witness) he will realise it later just as you did.MrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-1765462343074247672009-04-29T17:39:00.000-05:002009-04-29T17:39:00.000-05:00Myna:
I am sending you a personal reply via e-mai...Myna:<br /><br />I am sending you a personal reply via e-mail. I got your note on the TV list.<br /><br />Thanks for contacting us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-45834033341769676222009-04-29T11:57:00.000-05:002009-04-29T11:57:00.000-05:00@ Tracieh:
Thanks so much.
What you've said is a...@ Tracieh:<br /><br />Thanks so much.<br /><br />What you've said is absolutely true and they have said it themselves.<br /><br />When they said that he "needed a chance to decide without someone trying to influence him" I was like, wtf?<br /><br />I asked them how he was supposed to make an informed decision with knowledge from only one group. I said that he's not free from influence if you're influencing him, lol.<br /><br />They flat out said that "he's thirteen and isn't mature enough to make a life-changing decision like that."<br /><br />I lost that argument because I didn't know how to counter it. I know it's completely wrong and their lack of confidence in their son's intellectual competence deeply disturbed me, but what can I say to that?<br /><br />They think my brother is immature, stupid and untrustworthy for doing stuff most teenagers are allowed to do. He can't even have a MySpace account because he likes to date. It really bothers me.<br /><br />My dad has some really nasty tricks he uses. It gets to a point where he says "if you're as smart as you think you are, why do you do x?" Sometimes he gets me so worked up that I'm physically upset and then he makes fun of me for it.<br /><br />I can't stand some of the things he says to me about my character, completely based on the fact that I'm an atheist. But what they're doing to my brother makes me angrier.bit188https://www.blogger.com/profile/18057092090893972801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-18317302523911735002009-04-29T11:25:00.000-05:002009-04-29T11:25:00.000-05:00tracieh: "I can actually go you one better. I’ve h...<B>tracieh:</B> <I>"I can actually go you one better. I’ve had, more than once (and at least once with a Muslim), theists tell me that I should ask god to reveal himself (or read the Koran) to see if god is really there. But additionally, I was told that when I do so, I have to “really believe.” So, if you don’t believe in god, he’ll show himself to you if you ask, but first you have to believe. And they don’t see the dilemma there. I can’t explain it any more than you can."</I>The moment I read this I was reminded of something similar that's happened several times to me. It has nothing to do with religion but I think it makes a pretty good analogy. <br /><br />I'm Mexican(an actual Mexican, I don't just mean a North American of Mexican extraction) and I've never really been a fan of our traditional food. I'm not referring to the well-known examples of Mexican cuisine: tacos, tostadas and the like; or what Taco Bell makes people believe are examples of Mexican cuisine(what the hell is an "Enchirrito"?); but rather the more, shall we say, "obscure" of our courses. My mother and her sisters, though, have made it their mission to make me sample as many weird dishes as they can. I won't bore you with the details, but if you ever encounter something called a "nopal" in your meal, stay away from it. It's like biting into a raw green bean dipped in Krazy Glue.<br /><br />My point is, every time I'm invited to eat something "traditional," usually all it takes is one look at the plate for a "Thanks, but no, thanks" to leave my lips, prompting a timeless phrase along the lines of "because I say so" and "it's for your own good" being thrown back at me: "but you haven't even tried it yet." Well, crap. They got me. In all fairness, how can I say I don't like it when I hadn't tasted it?. Being the annoying, little smart-ass I am, I finally came up with a trump card, or so I thought. "No se me antoja" was my answer. Roughly translated means "it doesn't appeal to me" or "I don't feel like trying/doing/tasting that." That was it!, I wasn't making a baseless judgement about the taste of the food, I was simply saying I found it so unappealing that I didn't want to try it in the first place. Brilliant.<br /><br />Much to my surprise, the adults didn't seem to quite grasp the distinction. I'd say I didn't really feel like trying <I>mole</I>(MOH-leh; gray, bland chicken legs covered in a weird, thick, dark sauce that would be tasty were it not dumped on boiled poultry) and they'd say "but you haven't tried it yet." After a few times, I finally snapped and started a mini-argument: "you understand what I'm saying, right? I didn't say I didn't like it, I said I didn't want to try it. You used to ask me to try it before deciding if I liked it or not. <B>You're now asking me to TRY it... before deciding whether or not I want to TRY it!</B>."<br /><br />I get a similar feeling of frustration, only times ten, whenever I'm asked to hit my knees and pray so god will reveal himself to me. "But you have to REALLY believe that he's there, if you do it cynically, it won't happen." Well, isn't that special?. You mean that if I go out and do enough tequila shots while hitting myself with a hammer in the head until enough neurons have died to make me believe it's true... then I'll see that is true?. Awesome.<br /><br />I didn't really add much to the conversation so I'll leave it at that. =D Just one more thing to believers: if you really want me to hit my knees and talk to the dude, first you need to give a really good reason to believe he's there in the first place.Adraelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05973486036413829486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-34816903646617742362009-04-29T11:09:00.000-05:002009-04-29T11:09:00.000-05:00I see maddogdelta beat me to it, but to be more sp...I see maddogdelta beat me to it, but to be more specific, yes, a Google search reveals that the name of the inn is the Farnsworth House, the address is 401 Baltimore Street in Gettysburg, and they are indeed only several blocks away from railroad tracks.<br /><br />http://maps.google.com/maps?q=401+baltimore+street,+gettysburg,+PA&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=xnn4Sd_cB4_stgPNh9jeDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1Barbara_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16337217486956927809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58526065739678785282009-04-29T09:38:00.000-05:002009-04-29T09:38:00.000-05:00Sparrow:
>"this week in carbon monoxide l...Sparrow:<br /><br />>"this week in carbon monoxide leaks".<br /><br />This made me laugh. I actually would like to do a followup program that investigates the exact same "hot spots" visited by GH or PS to see what is found by skeptics. But you're right, it would basically be footage of "1:31 a.m., nothing much happening, still."<br /><br />Beam:<br /><br />I've seen it. You're right. It does disgust me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61605621804971006302009-04-29T08:42:00.000-05:002009-04-29T08:42:00.000-05:00Tracie, if you really want to be disgusted check o...Tracie, if you really want to be disgusted check out a show on A&E called Psychic Kids. Good luck sitting through one episode.BeamStalkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772110446629492132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71796990010940645982009-04-29T08:15:00.000-05:002009-04-29T08:15:00.000-05:00You'll never ever see a reputable ghost investigat...You'll never ever see a reputable ghost investigation show. Why? Because no one would watch it? Why? Because it'd just be a bunch of rational people discovering where noises are actually coming from. Instead you get shows like Ghost Hunters, who are a bunch of plumbers from New England who found some money and bought some fancy stuff and walk around in houses filming themselves in night vision going "What was that?" "Did you see that?". A show that ACTUALLY investigated "hauntings" in any useful way simply wouldn't garner the viewers the television station would want to get from such a show. It'd just turn into "this old house" or "this week in carbon monoxide leaks".Sparrowhawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520765821903563677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-85174197188797724422009-04-29T08:11:00.000-05:002009-04-29T08:11:00.000-05:00Caffeine:
>It seems incredible to me, whenever...Caffeine:<br /><br />>It seems incredible to me, whenever, after I have explained that I have looked into the issue and think that the god idea has no standing, they counter offer that if I "truly repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and to reveal himself" to me.<br /><br />I can actually go you one better. I’ve had, more than once (and at least once with a Muslim), theists tell me that I should ask god to reveal himself (or read the Koran) to see if god is really there. But additionally, I was told that when I do so, I have to “really believe.” So, if you don’t believe in god, he’ll show himself to you if you ask, but first you have to believe. And they don’t see the dilemma there. I can’t explain it any more than you can.<br /><br />Myna:<br /><br />>They said I am not permitted to watch "atheistic videos" around him. That he needs a chance to decide…<br /><br />This is stacking the deck. He needs a chance to decide, but he needs to only be exposed to one side of the issue before he makes his “decision.” This is my main complaint about most religious homeschool and groups like Amish. If you cloister a person (child or not) from information, then their “decision” is not a valid decision. It’s no different than a drug company neglecting to label their product with proper side effect warnings. How can I make an informed decision to use or not use a pharmaceutical if the company hides some of the information that would impact my decision. In fact, the company in this case would be hiding the information _because_ they recognize it would impact my decision. Is that ethical? Isn’t holding back data that you know would influence someone’s decision deceitful? Isn’t that nothing more than a lie of omission?<br /><br />Your parents, by cloistering your brother and forbidding anyone they have control over to allow him to examine all of his options are endorsing deceit as a tool to get what they want. As long as they don’t condemn others for being deceitful, and admit they think deceitful actions are OK with them, at least their consistent. But why do I suppose they’re not OK with that? I’m guessing it’s only OK if their lying on behalf of their religious goals, and not for anything else. Am I right, that outside of their use of lying, they would normally condemn lying as wrong?<br /><br />Meanwhile the question of what you should do is extremely difficult. While you are minors, your parents have extreme control over you simply due to law. Practically speaking, they can’t force you to not talk to your brother about atheism. But they sure can make life hell for you and him if you don’t do what they command. Before I became a Christian, I stopped going to church for a time. My mother was not in agreement with this, but I told her this: I have decided not to follow Christianity. “You’re saying I’m not mature enough to decide for myself whether or not to follow Christianity. As long as you force me to go to church, I will take that as a cue from you that I am unable to make such a decision for myself, and I will in good conscience, in that case, not make any decisions about it.”<br /><br />In other words, you can force me to go to church, but that’s a sign I’m not able to decide for myself. And if I can’t decide for myself in your opinion, then I won’t decide (I won’t become a Christian because, according to your actions [in deciding for me], I’m not competent to make that decision for myself).<br /><br />While I don’t recommend necessarily that your brother should use this tactic on your parents, you might point out to him that your parents decision to “decide for him” (basically), should clue him in that they are admitting that they don’t believe he has the competence to make this decision for himself. And so, he might hold off on even considering becoming a Christian until he sees your parents really do show him that they believe he’s able to make his own decision (which means they would respect his decision even if it doesn’t align with what they would want)—by actually letting him make his own decisions about what information he needs to investigate and consider in order to make a valid and informed decision on what he thinks about religion.<br /><br />As far as I can tell, this does not violate your parents’ request that you not discuss atheism with him. And it addresses the issue of pressure with your brother because it allows him to set the decision aside and not concern himself with it until his parents are ready to respect his choices as his own. If they don’t accept he can make his own choices, then they cannot believe that, if he decides to become a Christian, that his decision could possibly be valid.<br /><br />Does that make sense?<br /><br />Thanks for writing. I’ll look for your e-mail as well.<br /><br />Maddog:<br /><br />THANKS for that! I work near a track, and not all trains are equal. Some are very small and speedy passenger trains, others are long and trudging transport trains for heavy product. And, again, as a historic home, it may not be as solidly built as modern homes. I appreciate your input and investigative work! You did in a few minutes on the Internet what a team of "researchers" couldn't do at all. ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88636181496713468082009-04-29T08:04:00.000-05:002009-04-29T08:04:00.000-05:00@Tracieh
Just to add enlightenment to one detail ...@Tracieh<br /><br />Just to add enlightenment to one detail of your very fine post.<br /><br />As an amateur historian who knows enough about the Civil War know when to defer to my mom when the details are in question, I think I can point out that Gettysburg does indeed have railroads going through it.<br /><br />(Ok, a quick trip to google maps can tell you that also).<br /><br />One of the early reverses for the Confederate army was when the Union army wiped out almost an entire brigade hiding in a terrain feature called the "railroad cut", where a bed for a railroad had been dug through a hill, and turned into a killing ground.<br /><br />However, there are plenty of railroads going through Gettysburg now.<br /><br />http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gettysburg,+pa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.701751,79.101563&ie=UTF8&ll=39.830027,-77.226076&spn=0.029991,0.077248&z=14<br /><br />Keep in mind, that this town is pretty small, so a train of any size running on any of the tracks there would be noticed through much of the town.maddogdeltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17657824720032887242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17359644569309055562009-04-28T22:58:00.000-05:002009-04-28T22:58:00.000-05:00I'm fifteen and recently came out-- well, no. My p...I'm fifteen and recently came out-- well, no. My parents outed me when they found my blog.<br /><br />I sent you guys an email (from Mariana Lynch) today with more detail. Just discovered your show and I love it.<br /><br />But the one thing I forgot to mention in my email is that I have two little brothers, one thirteen and one six. My six year old brother has autism and is probably what I'd consider to be moderate to high functioning-- he's got significant delay in a number of areas, but his cognitive profile is so uneven that it's hard to say where he's really at. From the reading I've done, it seems like that's pretty typical for kids with ASDs.<br /><br />Anyhow, I totally spaced about my brothers. It's difficult for me to accept how my parents view me just because I'm an atheist-- I take that back. It's probably mostly because I'm an outspoken advocate for secularism and the like.<br /><br />But I'm very conflicted about my thirteen year old brother. He's expressed concern with my parents' beliefs-- at first, it was that he just wasn't happy spending his life doing something he didn't want to do. I assumed that was the main reason.<br /><br />He's a smart kid, he really is... but he's not at all like myself. He shows his intelligence through his maturity and sociability; he typically hangs out with kids three or more years older than himself. I do enjoy the company of adults, but I especially express my intelligence through my pursuit of academic subjects.<br /><br />So I just went along with that. It's a good point for someone his age, you can't expect most thirteen year olds to abandon religion based on reading Dawkins or Hitchens or whatever.<br /><br />We talk a lot and I watch quite a bit of YouTube in front of him. I really thought he didn't care either way, but he began to show some interest. My parents took him out of public school a few months ago because he got caught having girlfriends (heaven forbid, a teenage boy wants to date) and just did stupid stuff that teenagers do.<br /><br />So now he goes part-time with other homeschoolers. And guess what? Every other kid in his class is devoutly religious and have been homeschooled their entire lives. For the most part, they are sheltered and immature, and my brother has a difficult time with it. It's not fair for him.<br /><br />He was telling me a story about how one of his classmates was talking about watching "awesome creationist videos with people like Kent Hovind." Now, my brother and I had been going through Thuderf00t's "why do people laugh at creationists?" videos, one of them featuring Kent Hovind... my brother said he started laughing. The other kids asked him why, and he said "nothing, I just thought of something funny." Already learning to keep his mouth shut...<br /><br />Two other incidents have come up, one with my brother expressing interest in reading Richard Dawkins, another where I slipped some kind of atheist joke (one of his buddies mentioned he was an atheist, thought it was safe to do so) around his Catholic friend. I felt bad-- I didn't know he was a theist. He asked, "you really don't believe in God?" I was like, "uh..."<br /><br />To my surprise, my brother said he was "nothing" and "didn't believe in God."<br /><br />These incidents, in addition to some discussions we've had, have shown me that he's a bit more serious than I thought.<br /><br />He hasn't figured out to keep his mouth shut around my parents, though, and I'm in trouble. They said I am not permitted to watch "atheistic videos" around him. That he needs a chance to decide, and that his whole support system is in the church.<br /><br />Their last point really hit me, though: he's not allowed to have "worldly" friends. He's only thirteen and is still dependent on my parents' friends for support, not his own. I don't want to ruin all this for him, as damaging as I think their faith is.<br /><br />Would it be better to leave it alone? At thirteen, and with his priorities, should I stand by and let him be indoctrinated for the sake of a community? I don't know if, at this point, nonbelief is more important than the support he has.<br /><br />He has a Bible study every Thursday, goes door-to-door on weekends (you guessed it, my family are JWs) and attends church twice a week with my parents.<br /><br />I'm at a loss.bit188https://www.blogger.com/profile/18057092090893972801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-70553973153516032942009-04-28T21:51:00.000-05:002009-04-28T21:51:00.000-05:00Nice misrepresentation - The Pennsylvania State Un...Nice misrepresentation - The Pennsylvania State University Paranormal Research Society. Tries to give the impression of some academic repute. It is in fact a student organization at Penn State. It has no academic standing. It has as much credibility as the PSU Ultimate Frisbee Club.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866078149595235224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-39191114357170674912009-04-28T20:37:00.000-05:002009-04-28T20:37:00.000-05:00But... but... what about the trees?!But... but... what about the trees?!TheBrainFromPlanetAroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04656561052157326830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46147298489948748712009-04-28T18:39:00.000-05:002009-04-28T18:39:00.000-05:00"Surely anyone can see the problem with praying to..."Surely anyone can see the problem with praying to the god whose existence I'm attempting to evaluate? Such a maneuver requires a presupposition that the god is actually there to begin with. That’s stacking the deck."<br /><br />Very well put Tracie. It seems incredible to me, whenever, after I have explained that I have looked into the issue and think that the god idea has no standing, they counter offer that if I "truly repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and to reveal himself" to me.<br /><br />They couldn't understand that to do what they ask, I had to accept their point in advance. I made the analogy of "if come in trying to claim a winning $1.000 lottery ticket, I tell you there is no record of your ticket in the system, and then you tell me "Tell you what, give me the money, and I'm sure the records will reappear."<br /><br />it is an ingenious ploy to circumvent the intellect. <br /><br />Todd Friel, who I heard recently in a clip with Hitchens does exactly the same thing, tries to pass off his faulty reasoning as a game of pretend to grab an emotional response (not that he succeeded with Hitchens)Cafeeine Addictedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02011016176276511661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-62369643430114493672009-04-28T18:25:00.000-05:002009-04-28T18:25:00.000-05:00These sorts of TV shows do the world a great disse...These sorts of TV shows do the world a great disservice. I think it's great that you're bringing up this criticism. Maybe we can get a letter writing campaign or something.<br /><br />For the producers, the temptation is pretty great. They don't have to invest a lot of time and energy doing fake investigations and the subject is so sensational, it sells itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com