tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post1836776897581480059..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: "What would convince you?"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27080970786600028392008-03-10T16:37:00.000-05:002008-03-10T16:37:00.000-05:00If they're talking about the God of the Bible, it ...If they're talking about the God of the Bible, it doesn't make any difference whether I believe in him or not. I consider him to be immoral and not worthy of respect or worship. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/08/ignorance-is-blitz/" REL="nofollow">Better link to Ignorance is blitz</A>NALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12244370945682162312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-57688209351587926382008-03-10T15:40:00.000-05:002008-03-10T15:40:00.000-05:00I should clarify that I agree that realm exists--b...I should clarify that I agree that realm exists--but it's not usually what people mean when they say god exists. Anyone who claims that all they mean when they say 'god exists' is that he exists as an idea, I can't argue. And I have to agree.<BR/><BR/>I don't agree this "invalidates" materialism and the findings of natural science. But it is another definition of "existence" we sometimes agree to use: ideas exist in my imagination. Fairies live there, right along side god and space aliens. This argument for god's "existence" puts him squarely in the realm of Hobbits and Vulcans. And I think that's right where he belongs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-35502141774591765562008-03-10T15:37:00.000-05:002008-03-10T15:37:00.000-05:00>He thinks that because abstract concepts like jus...>He thinks that because abstract concepts like justice are not "materialistic" in nature, then that alone invalidates the "materialism" of science while proving that a "non-material" realm must exist in which such concepts must be manifested, and that happens to be the realm where God lives.<BR/><BR/>I heartily agree. That realm is called the human mind/imagination. "Abstract" concepts are also self-defined concepts. My conception of love is all the love I know. And someone's conception of god is all the god they know.<BR/><BR/>God exists in that realm where "love" exists. But if a theist wants to claim god exists outside the human mind, apart from a human concept, conceived and maintained and defined by the human brain/imagination--he's got to compete with my coffee mug.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-90196417668716358142008-03-10T11:25:00.000-05:002008-03-10T11:25:00.000-05:00Ah, Tracie. But then they'd say, "Well, what about...Ah, Tracie. But then they'd say, "Well, what about love, or justice, or equality? Can you hold those things in your hand? Then how do you know <I>they</I> exist?" I'm not saying it's a good reply, only that it's what a lot of them would say. That moron Theodore Beale, aka "Vox Day," is <A HREF="www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/08/ignorance-is-blitz/" REL="nofollow">all about this</A>. He thinks that because abstract concepts like justice are not "materialistic" in nature, then that alone invalidates the "materialism" of science while proving that a "non-material" realm must exist in which such concepts must be manifested, and that happens to be the realm where God lives. Seriously, that's how he thinks. It's an elaborate and overworked variant on the old, "science can't explain this, so..." God of the Gaps argument, but he and lots of believers take it seriously.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-66537539962464618192008-03-10T08:52:00.000-05:002008-03-10T08:52:00.000-05:00That is a funny question: What would it take to co...That is a funny question: What would it take to convince you god exists?<BR/><BR/>I would probably say something along the lines of, "The same thing it would take to convince you there is a mug on the table between us, if we were sitting together at a table."<BR/><BR/>It's actually VERY easy to convince me a thing exists. I know this becuase I'm convinced all kinds of things exist. Walk up to me. Hand me a pencil. Say, "This pencil exists." I can promise anyone right now that I won't put up any argument whatsoever. Present your pencil. I believe you. No debate. Extremely simple. Extremely efficient.<BR/><BR/>Existence is defined by manifestation. If it manifests, there is no question but that it exists. Some things manifest more easily than others, sure. But if it's not manifesting, there is no reason to be saying there is something there.<BR/><BR/>Pointing to a tree and saying, "that is god manifesting," makes me wonder if you think god is a tree. I'm being somewhat facetious there; but in reality, how is that different than me showing you a rock and saying, "This is a manifestation of fairies, because I happen to know that only fairies can produce rocks."<BR/><BR/>The rock shows rocks exist. We can certainly investigate how rocks come to be rocks. But unless fairies manifest, there's no reason to say rocks = fairies. And there's nothing _more_ convincing about saying trees = god/s.<BR/><BR/>I don't dispute the rock. I don't dispute the tree. I don't dispute the pencil. But I will dispute you if you tell me that things that don't manifest can be said to exist. That requires redefining existence to include nonmanifesting items. And I've posted this before, but I'll post it again: If items that do not manifest can be said to exist, how do we differentiate them from items that do not exist? How can we tell the difference between something that won't manifest although it is and something that can't manifest because it's not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-11588848723452247452008-03-09T20:52:00.000-05:002008-03-09T20:52:00.000-05:00Right on Martin. A lot of times, Christians seem ...Right on Martin. A lot of times, Christians seem to forget the fact that a lot of us <EM>were</EM> Christians. We arrived at our atheism after a period of examination and critical analysis. Speaking for myself, I was a believing Catholic. It is not easy to give up a commitment to a belief system where you honestly believed that making the wrong choice could have dire consequences in the afterlife. Once I abandoned Catholicism, and religion in general, I felt a tremendous sense of relief and never had any regrets.Tommykeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-44022117705922996982008-03-09T18:31:00.000-05:002008-03-09T18:31:00.000-05:00Ebon Musings made an effort at describing what the...Ebon Musings made an effort at describing what they would find convincing in their <A HREF="http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/theistguide.html" REL="nofollow">Theist's Guide to Converting Atheists</A>.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13113358989259865484noreply@blogger.com