tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post1822925715788803592..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Chuck Colson responds (response #2)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-23543150016215054792008-08-08T03:24:00.000-05:002008-08-08T03:24:00.000-05:00Apologist:God allows things to happen because he n...Apologist:<BR/><I>God allows things to happen because he no longer intercedes on earth like he did once before.</I><BR/><BR/>Why not? Did he become weaker over time, or does he care less than he used to?<BR/><BR/><I>It will all come to an end when Jesus comes back to earth.</I><BR/><BR/>Why wait? Is something holding him back, or is he just taking his sweet time?<BR/><BR/>If the God you believe in is unwilling or unable to affect the real world in observable ways, then he's functionally irrelevant. Jesus dying for the remission of sin so human souls can go to Heaven is, so far as I can tell, a made-up character doing mythological deeds to solve artificial problems regarding manufactured entities and realms. So what? I can get all of that from any book, movie or off-color joke.<BR/><BR/><I>...because slavery is preferred by God, he only allowed it to happen. He didn't condone it.</I><BR/><BR/>If he prefers it, and allows it, how is that not condoning it? Can you explain your definition of "condone"?<BR/><BR/><I>people make up who they want God to be,</I><BR/><BR/>On this, I agree. You're doing the exact same thing.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03130354533571499310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-85122865997534032372008-08-07T11:05:00.000-05:002008-08-07T11:05:00.000-05:00Stephen:I just saw your post. Thanks for bringing ...Stephen:<BR/><BR/>I just saw your post. Thanks for bringing that up. The Bible was interpreted before it was ever even a thought in anyone's brain to canonize it. Right you are.<BR/><BR/>Apologist: I hope you have some information regarding the relay of the manuscripts from one generation to the next and the revisions in your Bible today that are due to that process. Take note that the only reason you call that book "scripture" is because some human told you it was god's word. The books themselves most often make no such claims. Nor do they reflect whatever was originally penned. The edits and additions are known full-well to the translators--and the ones they are aware of are called out in the marginal notes of some of the better modern-day translations. However, they are still included in the content. Unfortunately, not all translations, such as KJV, have marginal notes. So many Xians today are reading forged material and still thinking it is the preserved word of god, even though it was known even at the time KJV was put together that the manuscripts used weren't the best copies available.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-15443954553187142212008-08-07T10:54:00.000-05:002008-08-07T10:54:00.000-05:00>Sin is sin. Doesn't matter what it is. Its...>Sin is sin. Doesn't matter what it is. Its all counted as rebellion against God.<BR/><BR/>Then why is slavery "tolerated" while infidelity is a capital crime? It does not appear that god agrees with your assessment that it's all the same. He is applying a heirarchy to it, pretty obviously. And in his heirarchy, eating crab is worse than buying and selling people.<BR/><BR/>How is eating a crab somehow offensive to an deity?<BR/><BR/>In fact, god instructed the Hebrews to take slaves in some of the military conflicts they won. The stories don't say he said, "OK, OK, if it means that much to you, go for it." He told them who he wanted killed (sometimes instructing mass infanticide--is that OK with you?) and who he wanted enslaved.<BR/><BR/>I have to agree with Jen. If you're going to say "sin is sin"--you have to show me where "slavery" constitutes "sin" in the good book. God clearly condemns eating crab. And he clearly condemns sleeping with the wrong partner. But I have no indication he has ever condemned his favorite people owning slaves.<BR/><BR/>It appears that according to the Bible, slavery is NOT an offense. While eating a crab is clearly forbidden. And illicit sex is a death sentence.<BR/><BR/>So, once again, I ask: Do you subscribe to this hierarchy of morality?<BR/><BR/>>God allows things to happen because he no longer intercedes on earth like he did once before. He allows it to happen, yes. Its not that difficult. It will all come to an end when Jesus comes back to earth.<BR/><BR/>>Slavery was permitted for that reason yes.<BR/><BR/>Uh, no. Because slavery was allowed at a time when the Bible says god DID intercede. So, please rethink this evaluation, because it does not apply to the slavery laws. Also, in your Bible we have Hebrew records that god instructed the Hebrews to take slaves--and even specifically whom they should take (as mentioned above).<BR/><BR/>>You can't always find a verse on a certain subject, but because slavery is preferred by God, he only allowed it to happen. He didn't condone it.<BR/><BR/>HOW do you know this if it's not in your Bible? You said above you don't "interpret" it. But here, that's EXACTLY what you're doing. You're claiming it condemns something that god commanded Hebrews to do. He told them to make slaves of prisoners of war (specifically female children).<BR/><BR/>>Do you know why denominations exist? Because of sin...<BR/><BR/>No, because people like you say that the Bible means X when it says Y. And then claim your not interpreting in, while you then press that your interpretation is the "right one." Since every Xian who this, we have denominations.<BR/><BR/>>people make up who they want God to be, not who God says he is through the bible.<BR/><BR/>Like wanting him to think slavery is wrong, even though he doesn't appear to?<BR/><BR/>>The most imporant doctrines are usually the same<BR/><BR/>You hope. How can you know that though, if you're understanding is flawed?<BR/><BR/>>I don't believe I am smarter than anyone, but I don't allow my interpretation to be correct, but I test it until I come up with what the bible says as accurately I can to those who wrote it.<BR/><BR/>But you admit that you can't really show where the Bible calls slavery wrong--but you then say god thinks it's wrong. You have zero authority to ascribe that attitude to god based on scripture--but you do so regardles. You do not "test" anything. You know what you want god to be (someone who doesn't condone slavery), and that's who you make "god."<BR/><BR/>>It's like someone interpreting shakespeare, there are wrong ways and right ways. same goes with the bible, don't take things out of context so you can gain a better understanding.<BR/><BR/>Why, then, do you do take things out of context? If the Bible defines god as not being anti-slavery--why attribute anti-slavery tendencies to god?<BR/><BR/>>It's like someone interpreting shakespeare, there are wrong ways and right ways.<BR/><BR/>I agree. And in the example you used, "to be, or not to be," it's a statement about contemplating suicide. What you're doing is something like this: "Even though Ophelia killed herself and Hamlet sounds like he's asking himself about whether it's better to kill himself, surely Shakespeare wouldn't have a character seriously think of suicide. So, he must have been forced to write in Ophelia's unfortunate demise due to some plot constraints. And Hamlet surely must not be talking about suicide. Maybe he's just waxing existential. He's just wondering what it is like to die."<BR/><BR/>No, he's thinking about whether or not he still wants to live. And he is considering the question of suicide. Just because that is uncomfortable for someone doesn't make it any less what Shakespeare wrote.<BR/><BR/>You finished by asking for personal emails. Sorry--no can do. I make it a policy to only dialogue where the public can read the exchange. I hold out no false hopes of getting through to delusional individuals; but I hold out real hope that someone actually seeking for truth might come upon an exchange like this one and be prompted to think.<BR/><BR/>Ergo, I limit my exchanges, as much as possible, to public forums.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7276491024156420952008-08-06T18:00:00.000-05:002008-08-06T18:00:00.000-05:00God allows things to happen because he no longer i...<I>God allows things to happen because he no longer intercedes on earth like he did once before.</I><BR/><BR/>Huh. Slacker!Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-37742371568794560202008-08-06T17:05:00.000-05:002008-08-06T17:05:00.000-05:00God allows things to happen because he no longer i...God allows things to happen because he no longer intercedes on earth like he did once before. He allows it to happen, yes. Its not that difficult. It will all come to an end when Jesus comes back to earth.<BR/><BR/>Slavery was permitted for that reason yes. You can't always find a verse on a certain subject, but because slavery is preferred by God, he only allowed it to happen. He didn't condone it.<BR/><BR/>Do you know why denominations exist? Because of sin: people make up who they want God to be, not who God says he is through the bible. The most imporant doctrines are usually the same, others are harder to establish. We will all know in the end if God grants us that.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe I am smarter than anyone, but I don't allow my interpretation to be correct, but I test it until I come up with what the bible says as accurately I can to those who wrote it. <BR/><BR/>I am not saying I know everything, but I will research each part until I gain the greatest understanding I can of the bible. <BR/><BR/>It's like someone interpreting shakespeare, there are wrong ways and right ways. same goes with the bible, don't take things out of context so you can gain a better understanding.<BR/><BR/>If you want to discuss more in depth, send me an email: quiet4no1@gmail.comInnovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-39595818649703722832008-08-06T16:38:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:38:00.000-05:00Apologist,"Because one interprets something anothe...Apologist,<BR/><BR/>"Because one interprets something another way doesn't make their interpretation right.<BR/>I don't interpret, I study what the bible teaches and it easily comes from that."<BR/><BR/>There are 3,000 different denominations of Christianity, all of which claim to have an accurate understanding of the Bible - yet they all disagree with each other on one or more points of doctrine. <BR/><BR/>The Bible was written, edited, canonized and translated by hordes of people, and remains subject to widely varying interpretation. There are as many understandings of the Bible as there are readers, and even individual readers change their minds about its contents from time to time. That is, in fact, the whole point of Bible study groups - to change people's minds about what certain passages say, nominally to gain a better understanding.<BR/><BR/>On what basis, then, do you claim to effortlessly glean direct comprehension of the Bible's contents simply by reading it, while somehow bypassing your own interpretation? Do you believe you are smarter than the billions of Christians who assembled the Bible in the first place and/or those who interpret it so widely today? Do you believe you possess the omniscience of God himself?Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03130354533571499310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-34978957422064982832008-08-06T16:35:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:35:00.000-05:00Sin is sin. Doesn't matter what it is. Its all cou...Sin is sin. Doesn't matter what it is. Its all counted as rebellion against God.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-56311999279502419432008-08-06T16:34:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:34:00.000-05:00Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin ...<I><B>Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin in the world.</B></I><BR/><BR/>Where exactly does it say that in the Bible? Chapter and verse, please. And whose sin is being punished here? The slave's?<BR/><BR/><I><B>Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God. Instead, it is allowed.</B></I><BR/><BR/>What??? Can you not understand the absurdity of that statement? At no time does your god say that he prefers that people not own slaves. In fact, he gives specific instructions for the "biblically correct" way to enslave people. If he really didn't want people to own slaves, he could have just said, "No enslaving anyone, ever. Do it again and I'll smite your ass!" But no, instead he endorses owning other humans, and not just once.<BR/><BR/><I><B>Once you understand that [slavery's economic role in the ANE], the slavery verses don't have to be explained in much more depth.</B></I><BR/><BR/>Slave labor has played an economic role in <I>every</I> culture that has held slaves. How does this fact in any way excuse it?Rational Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122282788630579139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-45723229187762469482008-08-06T16:30:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:30:00.000-05:00Apologist:Maybe I'm misunderstanding this stat...Apologist:<BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm misunderstanding this statement:<BR/><BR/>>God allows many things to happen in the world such as storms, famine, murder, etc. Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God.<BR/><BR/>It sounds like you believe that the same god who said that _shellfish_ are contraband, and that having sex outside marriage is a capital offense, also felt that he just had to tolerate slavery because he felt it wasn't worth making it illgal.<BR/><BR/>Did you mean to say that god decided slavery should be allowed, but that _eating a shellfish_ needs to be illegal, and people ought to be stoned to death for having sex with the wrong partner?<BR/><BR/>Eating a shellfish and sexual infidelity are worse than slavery--it sounds like you're saying. Do you subscribe to this hierarchy of morality?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25691683800326295342008-08-06T16:28:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:28:00.000-05:00"...I never condoned slavery, nor should any other..."...I never condoned slavery, nor should any other Christian. Obviously the ones who did, did not understand what parables were..."<BR/><BR/>Well just so you know, this is a logical fallacy called "no true scottsman". Please look up the fallacy if you do not understand it. <BR/><BR/>Now your claim that god "allows" for slavery but does not condone it is absurd. Please show me where in the bible it states just that. <BR/><BR/>You admit god put down as law that men could be under the ownership of other men. (Ex. 21:23; Lev. 25:46) You also call this a sin. So god says that sin is one of his laws. God commands you to sin. Funny. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Ex. 21:20, ok so you think it is morally ok to beat your slave so long as you do not kill him? Thats some funny morals you got there. And by funny I mean SICKENING.<BR/><BR/>Lev. 22:11, now you are, without a doubt, taking things out of context. 22:11 is the end of a paragraph in which god says that when a man marries a female slave (she has no choice in the matter of course) she may only leave if after he marries a woman, he stops screwing her. <BR/><BR/>Again those are some nasty morals. <BR/><BR/>Exodus 20:10, The only time a slave gets to rest is when he is worshiping his masters god. Which, believe it or not, comes under punishment of death. So now he's being forced to do nothing. This might be the slaves only time to do something he needs done, like buy salve for his blistered feet. But he can't do it because if he does he's murdered by a bunch of zealots that force him to work day in and day out.<BR/><BR/>(Gen. 17:13; Exodus 12:44; Lev. 22:11; Deut. 5:14) Same thing as above.<BR/><BR/>Deut. 23:16-17 has nothing to do with our conversation, and makes no judgement on the morality of slavery. If you think it does you are really reaching. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Ok no more of this, would you care to look at any of my verses or just throw out more of your own? This is absurd misdirection so that you do not have to address the actual point. It's utterly dishonest. Get serious or stop wasting time.Nr Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06314959355791540162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-36741222191872777862008-08-06T16:02:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:02:00.000-05:00Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin ...Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin in the world. It existed before the Jews were formed as a nation and it existed after Israel was conquered. God allows many things to happen in the world such as storms, famine, murder, etc. Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God. Instead, it is allowed. Where many nations treated their slaves very badly, the Bible gave many rights and privileges to slaves. So, even though it isn't the best way to deal with people, because God has allowed man freedom, slavery then exists. God instructed the Israelites to treat them properly. <BR/><BR/> The Bible acknowledged the slave's status as the property of the master (Ex. 21:23; Lev. 25:46),<BR/><BR/>The Bible restricted the master's power over the slave. Ex. 21:20).<BR/><BR/>The slave was a member of the master's household (Lev. 22:11)<BR/><BR/>The slave was required to rest on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10; Deut. 5:14)<BR/><BR/>The slave was required and to participate in religious observances (Gen. 17:13; Exodus 12:44; Lev. 22:11).<BR/><BR/>The Bible prohibited extradition of slaves and granted them asylum (Deut. 23:16-17).<BR/><BR/>The servitude of a Hebrew debt-slave was limited to six years (Ex. 21:2; Deut. 15:12).<BR/><BR/>When a slave was freed, he was to receive gifts that enabled him to survive economically (Deut. 15:14)<BR/><BR/>The reality of slavery cannot be denied. Slaves were "slave labor played a minor economic role in the ancient Near East, for privately owned slaves functioned more as domestic servants than as an agricultural or industrial labor force." quote from Paul J. Achtemeier in Harpers Bible Dictionary.<BR/><BR/>Once you understand that, the slavery verses don't have to be explained in much more depth.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17949122725259373262008-08-06T16:01:00.000-05:002008-08-06T16:01:00.000-05:00Because one interprets something another way doesn...Because one interprets something another way doesn't make their interpretation right. <BR/><BR/>I don't interpret, I study what the bible teaches and it easily comes from that. <BR/><BR/>I never condoned slavery, nor should any other Christian. Obviously the ones who did, did not understand what parables were.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-47876942286244880402008-08-06T15:43:00.000-05:002008-08-06T15:43:00.000-05:00Ok so apologist you've jumped up a level to the ot...Ok so apologist you've jumped up a level to the other posts on this subject but I'd like to keep us contained here. <BR/><BR/>Your response to Jesus saying that slaves should expect to be beaten is that unless I believe in your god I will not be able to understand what that actually means? <BR/><BR/>You understand that other believers have used that passage to say that slavery is "just fine and dandy", right? <BR/><BR/>So those people whom believed and followed the bible much more rigorously than yourself were not true christians, because they got it wrong?Nr Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06314959355791540162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-86426878301231925122008-08-06T15:35:00.000-05:002008-08-06T15:35:00.000-05:00As others have pointed out (and oh so pointedly ha...As others have pointed out (and oh so pointedly have they pointed such a thing out) I provided verses. If you would like we can go a step further and say they are all from King James, just so we are on the same page. <BR/><BR/>Also, just in case you've missed it, prior you claimed slavery and more directly the beating of slaves to be a sin. So according to your reasoning Jesus teaches us how to sin. Luke 12:47.Nr Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06314959355791540162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29268896124494462672008-08-06T13:29:00.000-05:002008-08-06T13:29:00.000-05:00Apologist said:"Give me specific verses and I will...Apologist said:<BR/><I><B>"Give me specific verses and I will put them in context for you."</B></I><BR/><BR/>nr miller gave you specific verses - or are you too wedded to the idea that your god wouldn't condone slavery that you can't bear to read what your Bible plainly says. <BR/><BR/>Here, I'll help - the "context" in the Exodus verses is your god telling Moses how to buy, sell, & treat slaves. He is setting down laws by which you can own another human. Look it up. Then answer the question - would you support the return of "Biblical Slavery" in modern America, if it were proposed?Rational Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122282788630579139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-26905429941581627272008-08-06T12:40:00.000-05:002008-08-06T12:40:00.000-05:00Apologist: If you're replying to NR Miller (as it ...Apologist: If you're replying to NR Miller (as it appears you are) he provided a list of verses above, along with his context of how he takes them. It's _right_ above your claim he's taking the verses out of context. I'd recommend using those same verses, in case that helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-83318486746823288122008-08-06T10:26:00.000-05:002008-08-06T10:26:00.000-05:00I would love to.Give me specific verses and I will...I would love to.<BR/><BR/>Give me specific verses and I will put them in context for you. <BR/><BR/>What I mean by taking out of context is this: If we took "To be, or not to be" out of Shakespeare, we could interpret that phrase any way we wanted.<BR/><BR/>Shakespeare meant something completely different when you look at it in context of what he wrote around it and who it was spoken by, etc.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32482007775252297522008-08-06T10:22:00.000-05:002008-08-06T10:22:00.000-05:00I would love to do so. Give me verses you find con...I would love to do so. Give me verses you find controversial. I will put them back into the context of the passage and explain away.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-70156680152053472792008-08-06T09:54:00.000-05:002008-08-06T09:54:00.000-05:00Kazim:I know you know this, but further, a quick s...Kazim:<BR/><BR/>I know you know this, but further, a quick search online will yeild Christians who argue that mass infantacides committed by the Hebrews in the Bible--stated as being committed under a direct command from god--were justified as well.<BR/><BR/>I won't condone slavery; but if someone is willing to say that genocide and infantacide are OK sometimes--why should anyone be surprised to see someone in that same belief system arguing that slavery isn't so bad sometimes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-72205056916187332282008-08-06T06:57:00.000-05:002008-08-06T06:57:00.000-05:00Apologist writes: "I am just telling you a fact, s...Apologist writes: "I am just telling you a fact, slavery was not the same."<BR/><BR/>Notice that Apologist is now doing exactly what I described in my first message to Chuck. I wrote: "Christians arguing for slavery? Is this the fault of post-modernism and relativism? Or is it simply an honest effort to reconcile a book which is "known" to contain absolute immutable truth?"<BR/><BR/>Here we have a Christian fervently arguing for slavery, so I'm pleased to get a confirmation that I did not misspeak. Tell me, Apologist, would you support the return of "Biblical Slavery" in modern America, if it were proposed?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46709984136737798682008-08-06T02:17:00.000-05:002008-08-06T02:17:00.000-05:00Is it or is it not right to regard humans as prope...Is it or is it not right to regard humans as property? If it is wrong today, it was wrong back then. A different culture is no excuse for wrongdoing and unethical behavior. Attributing a divine right to slavery by way of an imaginary super-being and reversely extending that right to humans is nothing more than a circular justification for unethical behavior.<BR/>If slavery is a product of sin, then there should be evidence of sin. Not unethical behavior, but sin as a violation of a supreme being's law. To do that, one needs evidence of said being's existence, and furthermore an argument for the ethicity of the law that does not run into the Euthyphro fallacy.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749925395851545703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65220649021999009022008-08-06T02:00:00.000-05:002008-08-06T02:00:00.000-05:00I also would love for you to please back up your s...I also would love for you to please back up your statement that any of these sets of verses are out of context. You have the ability to set me straight. Please go ahead and defend your point rather than simply claim you have a reasoned rebuttal, but refuse to actually articulate it.Nr Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06314959355791540162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-20590735449571629882008-08-06T01:18:00.000-05:002008-08-06T01:18:00.000-05:00Yes, we need to remember back in the first century...Yes, we need to remember back in the first century about happy slavery, playful racism, and frisky holy wars. Ah, good times.<BR/><BR/>And let's just forget the actual definition of slavery as the ownership of an individual as property to act as ordered. Property does not have will, opinion or desire; if it's voluntary, it's <I>not slavery</I>. You may as well say "In those days, slaves didn't have masters!"<BR/><BR/>Don't confuse modern revised Bible's use of <I>servant</I> with servantry which can be voluntary. The word being translated is the Greek <I>doulos</I> which means slave--property of a master.<BR/><BR/>God was nice, though. You're not allowed to just kill your slaves; you have to beat them slowly to death over the course of a few days.<BR/><BR/>Seems I don't recall the passages that tell you to treat your slaves humanely (if that's possible, considering they're <I>slaves</I>).Zurahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06325048684652466640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27330056874010837762008-08-06T01:15:00.000-05:002008-08-06T01:15:00.000-05:00They did not just "beat" their slaves. JESUS INSTR...They did not just "beat" their slaves. JESUS INSTRUCTED THEM TO BEAT THEIR SLAVES. <BR/><BR/>So by your reasoning, Jesus teaches sin? <BR/><BR/>Nice!Nr Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06314959355791540162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31756579692230951022008-08-06T00:44:00.000-05:002008-08-06T00:44:00.000-05:00I am just telling you a fact, slavery was not the ...I am just telling you a fact, slavery was not the same. <BR/><BR/>Because one beat their slaves, does not make it right. The bible is also a book of slavery. If you read more than one verse or verses in context, not out of context, the whole story makes more sense. <BR/><BR/>Slavery was the product of sin... not all slavery was condoned either.Innovative Defensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07854444943308333927noreply@blogger.com