tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post6835251368000377350..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: More risible moral arguments for GodUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21997517134398599652010-11-27T14:15:10.208-06:002010-11-27T14:15:10.208-06:00I can agree with you on some of the 9-11 claims an...I can agree with you on some of the 9-11 claims and conspiracies regarding Zeitgeist parts 2, 3 & addendum but, I cannot agree with hardly anything you've said about ZG part 1. I've done my own research long before the Zeitgeist movie was ever heard of and your claims are wrong - embarrassingly wrong and you're embarrassing all atheists by repeating the nonsense I've seen in your youtube video #634. The comments there by 'Hercules2345' proved that.<br /><br />I notice that most here at the atheist experience consistently commit the fallacy of 'guilt by association' by conflating part 1/Acharya S with everything else. Acharya S had nothing to do with parts 2 or 3. She has consistently substantiated part 1 when it has come from her own work and I've yet to see anyone here go to her website or videos or forum or read any of her books or even make any attempt to contact her at all. So, the anti-Acharya S position here is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets. As an atheist, I find your website & videos regarding ZG1 & Acharya S a monumental disappointment that isn't any better than fundy Xians. Take that as constructive criticism. <br /><br />If you have any interest in being honest invite her on your show via the phone or something but, it would be wise if you knew her work first or you will look like a dumb-ass. Or do a show on her mythicist position. <br /><br />Read Acharya's Frequently Asked Questions at her Freethought Nation forum. <br /><br />Read this FAQ & you'll see why atheists should not be SMEARING her: "Do atheists disagree with Acharya's basic premise?"<br /><br />Search for the "Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence" thread and the post "The New ZEITGEIST Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)"<br /><br />CiaoVincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571004784757870370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-10376748699732117772010-08-25T09:56:06.575-05:002010-08-25T09:56:06.575-05:00Setting fire to women with own minds HURTS THEM
HU...Setting fire to women with own minds <i>HURTS THEM</i><br />HURTING PEOPLE is BAD<br /><br />Where is the difficulty?gswhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00464061976742965239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-44831618940372252322010-08-25T07:45:36.976-05:002010-08-25T07:45:36.976-05:00Well said Martin!
This lady starts out with Divin...Well said Martin!<br /><br />This lady starts out with Divine Command Theory. God is the "author" of morality, morality was "set forth in the scriptures", etc., etc. I find it funny that theists still use this argument since not only does this line of reasoning not jive with reality at all, as you showed Martin, but guys like Plato showed how logically unsound it is up to 2,500 years ago!<br /><br />What I find even funnier is that she then tries to plug the hole she made by introducing Divine Command Theory and tries to argue Divine Simplicity at the same time. There are reasons these two arguments aren't used together, since they reduce moral statements to useless tautologies and contradictions. For instance, since God is the author of morality, then "God's Commands are good." But according to her "God is Good," so we start getting useless stuff like "God is God's Commands" or if morality is merely a reflection of God, then "God is the author of morality" turns into "God is the author of the reflection of God's character." Clearly a bunch of nonsense that gets us no closer to how we ought to act. Usually glaring contradictions and nonsense in the structure of someone's moral paradigm <i>would</i> bother someone, but it seems that she's the exception to this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-63538576729638570232010-08-24T22:54:16.586-05:002010-08-24T22:54:16.586-05:00@ Doc, I'm sure I remeber that the library was...@ Doc, I'm sure I remeber that the library was burned more than once. The first time was by the Romans, then several more times, at the hands of christians and then the arabs. <br /><br />Knowledge is dangerous to religion. That's why our Texas school board works so hard to keep our kids as ignorant as they themselves are.vallwarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621492489181305484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-1190546108905473182010-08-24T22:19:57.168-05:002010-08-24T22:19:57.168-05:00O.K. so that was a bad example but my point still ...O.K. so that was a bad example but my point still stands.<br /><br /> Thanks for the correction Doc. <br /><br /> I think Tracie made several good points. One that was alluded to was the picking and choosing of which bits to use. We use our own set of morals to decide which bits are good and which ones to skip over. I'm sure Lot's daughters get skipped over more often than not. If we were just trained animals with morals imposed on us we couldn't do that.vallwarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621492489181305484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-89701080134487608552010-08-24T21:20:42.360-05:002010-08-24T21:20:42.360-05:00Doc appears to be fairly right according to Wiki (...Doc appears to be fairly right according to Wiki (take that as you will). But we still got them on ordering Hypatia's death for the crime of thinking while under the influence of ovaries.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-91669351212249729512010-08-24T19:05:49.600-05:002010-08-24T19:05:49.600-05:00Though the rebuilt library was subsequently destro...Though the rebuilt library was subsequently destroyed after being plundered, its a common misunderstanding to blame the christians,who probably would have loved to burn it, given the chance.Dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13304055931041798453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-34423253043516222092010-08-24T19:02:21.352-05:002010-08-24T19:02:21.352-05:00Vallwarrior says
"Nothing in history makes me...Vallwarrior says<br />"Nothing in history makes me believe christians are moral. They destroyed or burned everything that was viewed as non-christian. How is that moral? The burning of the library of Alexandria alone is one of the greatest crimes ever commited. Throw in witch burning and the inquisition (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!) and you see a pattern of immoral behavior that spans centuries. "<br /><br />The library burned in 48 BCE. Hard to blame the xians for that one.<br /><br />-xDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13304055931041798453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46397463534734666652010-08-24T16:43:49.250-05:002010-08-24T16:43:49.250-05:00I don't get it...skeptics I see are often comm...I don't get it...skeptics I see are often commenting on how it's usually not one unskeptical belief...they clump. Anti-Vax clumps with Homeopathy and conspiracy theory, creationism with UN fright and conspiracy theory. Glen Beck with every stupid belief under the sun. bullshit clumps together. <br /><br />promote t eism as skeptical and you're going to get conspiracy theorists who are skeptical and all.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-81214460477329221182010-08-24T14:25:00.304-05:002010-08-24T14:25:00.304-05:00Can we count theism itself as one of the products ...Can we count theism itself as one of the products of "endlessly depraved" human minds?<br /><br />I do.George From NYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06158111795024631345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-42072259182568715162010-08-24T11:17:07.580-05:002010-08-24T11:17:07.580-05:00I agree with you Martin. Personal responsibility h...I agree with you Martin. Personal responsibility has no meaning if you can just beg forgivness afterward. Not only is it god's will, but Jesus died for your sins as well. <br /><br /> If you believe this life is all we have, there is even more reason to act responsibly now. There is no imaginary father figure to make it better later. <br /><br /> Nothing in history makes me believe christians are moral. They destroyed or burned everything that was viewed as non-christian. How is that moral? The burning of the library of Alexandria alone is one of the greatest crimes ever commited. Throw in witch burning and the inquisition (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!) and you see a pattern of immoral behavior that spans centuries. <br /><br /> Hell, even Jesus' birthday was stolen. I could go on, but you see the point. <br /><br /> As a rule of thumb, take anything a religibot says as exactly opposite of what is true and you will be O.K. Pretty much everything I've heard is 180 degrees out of phase from reality.vallwarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621492489181305484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65193465792755461002010-08-24T11:12:12.097-05:002010-08-24T11:12:12.097-05:001. If we can't comprehend god and god's mo...1. If we can't comprehend god and god's morality (except in pieces), then we're following moral commands that we don't understand. And we are, then, the trained dog with no moral judgment, only obedience.<br /><br />2. If we can realize god is moral, that can only be by our own personal moral evaluation, in which case, if we can evaluate his commands as moral, we are actually relying on our own morality.<br /><br />3. "Endlessly depraved." What a hateful view of oneself and of all humanity?<br /><br />When I saw that the relay of my FB status had been countered on Nathan's page, my first instinct was to reply to it. But I actually hold back sometimes to allow the person who repeated what I'd said to defend why he or she thought it was quote-worthy. In this case, before you posted your response, I was ecstatic to see Nathan's own reply, which was also quite good. As I would have, he immediately cited Euthyphro.<br /><br />I found it funny that the woman saying she isn't just a trained dog following orders she can't understand would then defend her position by saying, "It is important to remember that just as our perception of that which exists is limited, so is our idea of morality apart from its author."<br /><br />What does that even mean if not "I don't totally understand it, but since god said it, I accept it as moral"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-18108250125568428992010-08-24T11:10:32.621-05:002010-08-24T11:10:32.621-05:00I just stand in silent admiration, not understandi...I just stand in silent admiration, not understanding how you guys aren't sick and tired with the so called "arguments" of Christians... But then I remember that it is our responsibility to try to free minds from this curse. Even if it's very hard and sometimes boring.<br />He-he, Muriel didn't need to adapt to a fundamentalist environment, so his sarcasm became vestigial :)<br />But at second thought, lots of Christian materials (books, pamphlets etc) are translated from German in this region. They call th3emslves something like GBV-Dillenburg.ernobiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13872778498473437876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58890702674547993612010-08-24T10:46:36.753-05:002010-08-24T10:46:36.753-05:00"Societies that live at peace have not come u..."Societies that live at peace have not come up with a "morality that works" apart from the morality set forth in Scripture"<br /><br />This brings up something I said over at PZ's blog. "There has NEVER been a peaceful Christian nation. Not one, everyone marched to war under God's banner in some fashion."Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-84131827417398289572010-08-24T10:18:06.866-05:002010-08-24T10:18:06.866-05:00Societies that live at peace have not come up with...<b>Societies that live at peace have not come up with a "morality that works" apart from the morality set forth in Scripture</b><br /><br />This is simply stupid and wrong. Most modern nations have outlawed slavery, which is most certainly not a morality set forth in scripture. The bible or 10 commandments don't speak out against rape yet I am sure she would find rape immoral. There is a certain high level of ignorance necessary to make the moral argument.<br /><br />And no sarcasm in Germany? :( That's a sad state of affairs, but then again Germany did give us Nietzsche...Jeremiahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06977623156609966553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-35267512749742912662010-08-24T10:08:59.670-05:002010-08-24T10:08:59.670-05:00To be fair, you can't just buy off any woman y...To be fair, you can't just buy off any woman you rape. It depends on if she is claimed by another man, and how loud she screams, also location location location. See, there's rules to it, which makes it moral and good, praise the lord.Ithonicfuryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954473314799411412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61143455734877807112010-08-24T07:59:21.146-05:002010-08-24T07:59:21.146-05:00The moral argument for God is lame to begin with, ...The moral argument for God is lame to begin with, it is even lamer when you think the Bible is the perfect moral guidebook. Some Christians I knew at least said that it was an imperfect book written by men and was in no way a perfect embodiment of God's perfect moral standards... but then why would you need a God and how would you define what is moral if even his official biography doesn't get it right?<br /><br />Anyway, as I said it before when I commented on various posts, usually the main problem with the moral argument for God is that theists confuse morality with worship.Guillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-85211081712833470102010-08-24T07:27:32.451-05:002010-08-24T07:27:32.451-05:00Sarcasm is too complicated for me. We don't us...Sarcasm is too complicated for me. We don't use that stuff in Germany.<br />It just leaves me stumped how some believers can spend their whole life thinking about this triple-omni super-being and still completely fail to grasp the obvious implications of its triple-omni-ness, while deriding nonbelievers for their lack of imagination.Murielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180735566101945702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32780910063206510712010-08-24T07:14:45.289-05:002010-08-24T07:14:45.289-05:00Muriel, it was a sarcastic question. ;-) Still, yo...Muriel, it was a sarcastic question. ;-) Still, you're dead right. One of the big benefits of religious morality is that it allows believers to bypass personal responsibility. After all, how can anything you do be wrong if you're just doing God's will?Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-16922118763084588672010-08-24T07:03:17.861-05:002010-08-24T07:03:17.861-05:00That's what I'm saying: You don't. If ...That's what I'm saying: You don't. If you accept everything God does as inherently good, and accept God is omnipotent and omniscient, then you can do whatever you want because nothing could ever happen that's not good.<br />Now, you might think that this does not fit with your perception of reality, but never mind. God would certainly have had an extremely moral reason to give you that perception. He has no choice, after all.Murielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180735566101945702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14263985570223927702010-08-24T06:53:53.381-05:002010-08-24T06:53:53.381-05:00Well, you know, there was Eve and the apple and al...Well, you know, there was Eve and the apple and all that shit. But then...hold on...God's omniscient, so he must have known Eve was going to succumb to the serpent's temptation ahead of time! But that would mean that the "author of morality" must be the "author of evil" as well!<br /><br />No, it couldn't be...<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2045:7&version=KJV" rel="nofollow">oh...hang on, it is.</a><br /><br />So, why do I need to "get" my morality from this being again?Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-11749433244374279092010-08-24T06:46:55.214-05:002010-08-24T06:46:55.214-05:00If everything God does and is must be, more or les...If everything God does and is must be, more or less by definition, moral and good and great, wouldn't that mean that we, as His creation, must be moral and good and great, too, as well as everything he created us to do? How can we be "endlessly depraved"?Murielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180735566101945702noreply@blogger.com