tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post6520689785585772284..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: That so-called "Christian morality" in action yet againUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-33574544173385171182011-02-10T11:23:02.663-06:002011-02-10T11:23:02.663-06:00Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...Here's the video:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzUMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137432052143100061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32812916827168728162011-01-18T14:03:57.620-06:002011-01-18T14:03:57.620-06:00@Cafeeine Addicted: What you say about Greece pret...@Cafeeine Addicted: What you say about Greece pretty much describes the situation in Romania, with <i>its</i> Orthodox Church. <br /><br />Now, somewhat on topic: Victoria Strauss also wrote about this contest on the Writer Beware blog. <br /><br />That blog (accrispin.blogspot.com), maintained by Victoria Strauss, Ann C. Crispin and, lately, Richard White, is one of the best (if not The best) sources of information when it comes to dubious business practices in the publishing industry.Krryptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15082226090180605773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27804254900599639262011-01-17T12:51:48.865-06:002011-01-17T12:51:48.865-06:00BTW, Karen Hunter was part of the NY Daily News ed...BTW, Karen Hunter was part of the NY Daily News editorial board that won the 1999 Pulitzer Prize for its campaign to save the Apollo Theater. While it is quite an accomplishment, I don't like the way it's implied that she somehow won an individual award in her own self-aggrandizing descriptions.Michael Namhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18065001592912169409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14892146432231769612011-01-17T08:23:18.753-06:002011-01-17T08:23:18.753-06:00Two other things struck me about this:
1. Nobody ...Two other things struck me about this:<br /><br />1. Nobody else is looking for up-and-coming writers? Really? Really??<br /><br />2. Do not criticize the contest until after it has begun? The rules are up, so why wait? What does it accomplish, other than giving her a chance to rip off the first wave of contestants?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58967741796462777832011-01-17T01:54:07.333-06:002011-01-17T01:54:07.333-06:00Here's a link a youtube video of Paula Zahn...Here's a link a youtube video of Paula Zahn's show that included Karen Hunter-<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU<br /><br />I remember this clip since there was such an uproar at the time over there not being an atheist on the show to defend atheists' rights to free speech.<br /><br />For a Christian, Steven Smith did an admirable job of defending free speech against the rabid Karen Hunter. But, it would have been nice to have had, for example, Christopher Hitchens on the show.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00712329403322621540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58147751255174778772011-01-16T23:39:27.095-06:002011-01-16T23:39:27.095-06:00Vassili, While you live in a mostly Christian coun...Vassili, While you live in a mostly Christian country, you live in a country that is (nominally at least) very homogeneous in its religious make-up. There is very little confrontation within Greece between religions, but also between sections of Christianity. There is not as much pressure for people to wear their religion on their sleeves. As such, the type of hypocrisy displayed here is not as overt. However it should be noted that 'atheofovos' (without fear of god) is commonplace as a synonym for wicked, outrageous, depraved. Many Greeks cannot conceive of atheism unless a different dogma (communism usually) has taken the place of belief.<br /><br />And as for political freedoms? Organized Christianity supports whatever allows it to thrive, as was apparent in its relationship with the 70's dictatorship in Greece. Political freedoms thrived where several christianities lived together and did not want an opposing number establishing a theocracy, while being unable to establish one of their own.<br /><br />(Disclaimer: Vassilis and I know each other and have broken bread several times)Cafeeine Addictedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02011016176276511661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-2651576302936619482011-01-16T22:48:54.107-06:002011-01-16T22:48:54.107-06:00Thanks for pointing this out to people--and also t...Thanks for pointing this out to people--and also those other guys you linked to, which I also will check out. People don't always realize they need to read the fine print before sending in their work to any contests. I was lucky and had creative parents who pointed this sort of thing out to me the very first time I wanted to enter a contest or send a submission to a magazine, but not everyone is that lucky and too many people are taught to believe and not question.<br /><br />This is everywhere, too. One of my animation teachers went on for a while one day about this kind of practice of taking advantage of artists who are too young and/or inexperienced to realize what they are signing up for. She knew one kid who was paid $3000 to create a 30-minute animated show single-handed and he agreed, not realizing that the amount would just about cover the materials, nowhere near enough to subsist on while working on it, and that it would be a miracle if he broke even. And even then, I don't think he lost his right to be credited for the work, so these unethical asshats were a million times more moral than Hunter.<br /><br />BTW, why is it that whenever you express disgust at the hypocrisy of a smugly superior Christian behaving in a sleazy way, some True Believer whirls in powered by weapons-grade indignation and accuses everyone of "Christian-bashing" while carefully and deliberately avoiding the point? Even my mom realizes that this is about hypocritically claiming default superior Christian morality while behaving immorally and robbing others blind, and she would never think that my disgust at Hunter somehow translates into bashing her own faith in Jesus. Lots of Christians would understand that perfectly and would say "wow, this person should be ashamed to call herself Christian, and Jesus would be really disgusted with her" rather than "HOW DARE YOU NOTICE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE NOT MORALLY SUPERIOR BY DEFAULT, YOU ARE ASSAULTING ME!!!"<br /><br />Well, the fair-minded ones without an inflated sense of religious entitlement would. Fred Clark would, for example, understand the point and express disgust at someone who claims Christian morality while defrauding others. Or at least not whine because others are expressing that disgust.<br /><br />Beyond that, how infuriating is it that she is telling people on a forum that she will return the intellectual property w/all rights to anyone who doesn't win, while the actual contract says something different. I think that pretty much proves her scummy plans. This is exactly why my mom always said to READ and UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, and not just let them tell you what it says before you sign ANYTHING! Because if it goes to court, the court only cares about the agreement you signed, not what you say you were told.<br /><br />BTW, I have to find out if that letter is in its original form. Because if it is, that first part is hilarious. It looks like one sentence got dropped directly into the middle of another one, cdesign proponentsists-style. I would expect a "20 year veteran in publishing as a writer and publisher" to avoid such absurd mistakes in her writing.Harvey Requiemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02963190413341072166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71404397996069761642011-01-16T21:00:11.144-06:002011-01-16T21:00:11.144-06:00@Vas
Martin, are you saying there are no... con ...@Vas<br /><br /><br /><b>Martin, are you saying there are no... con artists between atheists? What does that say about... Atheists morality!!! </b><br /><br />The point is that atheist generally don't go around telling everyone how morally superior atheists are to everyone else. Christians make a living off doing exactly this so it is appropriate to point out contradictions to their claims.<br /><br /><b>Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms. Just compare that with nations that their political system promotes Atheism, or follow a different "mainstream" religion</b><br /><br />This statement stinks of a bubble boy thinking in the worst way. If you had spent even 10 seconds learning about the world at large you would realize how stupid this statement sounds. I don't feel patient enough tonight to deliver a wall-o-text of facts pointing out the absurdity of it unless it becomes necessary.Jeremiahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06977623156609966553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-43120544839385449442011-01-16T15:58:52.312-06:002011-01-16T15:58:52.312-06:00@JT
So let me see if I understand this:
A Cathol...@JT<br /><br />So let me see if I understand this:<br /><br />A Catholic priest denies 2 of his parishioners their communion stating "I'll explain after mass".<br /><br />The two women decided not to stay for mass and left the church grounds. <br /><br />The Rev then has a Dep. Sheriff pull the women over and they are issued trespassing warnings for...leaving when they were invited to stay for an after-mass explanation?<br /><br />This guy got the police involved? The Catholic church and the Sheriff's Department said there were "justifiable reasons for their actions". [http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/communion-36658-navarre-priest.html]<br /><br />Why didn't they just handle this internally?<br /><br />Oh wait, that's reserved for child sex abuse scandals.<br /><br />Amazing how fast the Catholic Church wants to use public services paid for by taxes they don't contribute to but when their people are raping children it suddenly becomes a "church matter".Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12608663741289574410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-13819317285761471402011-01-16T15:12:58.980-06:002011-01-16T15:12:58.980-06:00Oh, if only Miss Snark was still blogging. Come to...Oh, if only <a href="http://misssnark.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Miss Snark</a> was still blogging. Come to think of it, there was some speculation that she was an alter-ego of Janet Reid.<br />My wife is a writer and was helped a lot by that site.Micky Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16180202759640438409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-35509183750531973922011-01-16T14:31:19.199-06:002011-01-16T14:31:19.199-06:00The other English teachers in my building always p...The other English teachers in my building always post the writing contests that come across their desks so students can think about entering them. I appreciate the heads up on this so I can mention it just in case this one ends up in our mailboxes at school.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18330640864363173716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-24169210788817683632011-01-16T13:54:57.277-06:002011-01-16T13:54:57.277-06:00I on the other hand I am glad I live in a mostly C...<b>I on the other hand I am glad I live in a mostly Christian country, because we can have these conversations over the net... Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms.</b><br /><br />There's a coherent, worthwhile discussion to be had about Christianity's influence in the formation and development of the modern West - along with that of the classical world's intellectual inheritance, various European folk-cultural influences, the synthesis of all these in the Renaissance and afterward, the epistemological impact of the Scientific Revolution and so on.<br /><br />However, Vas, the plain fact of the history is that freedom of conscience and expression, personal privacy and legal/political liberty have advanced in the teeth of opposition from religious dogma and authority.<br /><br />Christianity claiming credit for these achievements is like a warden bragging about a jailbreak...George From NYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06158111795024631345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-63252592374880712662011-01-16T12:52:04.747-06:002011-01-16T12:52:04.747-06:00If you wanna know screenwriting surf on over to ht...If you wanna know screenwriting surf on over to http://www.clickok.co.uk/index4.htmlSarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06711494389969036054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-44075640573470113652011-01-16T12:47:00.546-06:002011-01-16T12:47:00.546-06:00@ Vassilis
"Unfortunately for atheists it ca...@ Vassilis<br /><br />"Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms."<br /><br />Have you done absolutely any research on political theory? Actually, democracy is nothing but relativism in a political form. There are no "universal absolutes" in the laws of our country save for those that serve only as a form of a social contract so that each of us people with differing opinions can live communally. This is directly opposed to Christianity, which requires that a set moral standard be attended to by all people. <br /><br />The difference:<br /><br />In Christianity, the law is above us and we must stick to it despite our consent or objections. <br /><br />In democracy, the law serves no other purpose but to serve us so that all people under the law can live communally. <br /><br />This being said, democracy is more closely related to an anti-theist, anti-moral-absolute perspective than any perspective that claims absolute knowledge or morality. It's Plato vs Thomas Hobbes, here.blindmansleepshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15353229728679452286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7409404610783074722011-01-16T11:14:16.577-06:002011-01-16T11:14:16.577-06:00Gah, these writing scams are all over the place. E...Gah, these writing scams are all over the place. Even Amazon has a screenwriting contest now that similarly buries the writers' rights upon submission and leaves Amazon an easy out when it comes to compensating the winners (though at least there's no entry fee). Gotta be careful.<br /><br />My favorite part from this Hunter business is, "I operate in truth." That type of lulzy rhetoric should immediately set the sirens off.cmontarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360319703921513540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-43465085537275461472011-01-16T07:18:41.077-06:002011-01-16T07:18:41.077-06:00An example of Christian "morality" in ac...An example of Christian "morality" in action:<br /><br /><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/why_we_need_separation_of_chur.php" rel="nofollow">Why we need separation of church and state</a>JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-5285525672911876392011-01-16T07:07:33.620-06:002011-01-16T07:07:33.620-06:00Additionally, citing America as an example
Well, ...<i>Additionally, citing America as an example</i><br /><br />Well, you didn't specify America exactly, but it is often cited as a prime christian example.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61459461316080219782011-01-16T07:04:14.669-06:002011-01-16T07:04:14.669-06:00Instead, I'll assume you're talking about ...Instead, I'll assume you're talking about the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc.<br /><br />You have a causation/correlation error there. These nations you speak of weren't bad because they were atheistic, but because they were totalitarian. The one thing that totalitarian regemes dislike the most is competing totalitarian regemes - such as Christianity. Thus, religions will tend to be oppressed, and the government of that nation is transformed into a de facto religion, with the dictator as the deity.<br /><br />You'll find that 99.99% of atheists would fight totalitarian regemes, and the same amount would fight for YOUR right to have your beliefs.<br /><br />Additionally, citing America as an example of "political freedom" isn't a good example. The secularists are fighting, each and every single day, to keep this country from being turned into a Christian-doctrin ran society. Those very same Christians are fighting tooth and nail to "return to biblical law", and it's the rest of us that are battling constantly to defend freedom for all.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-57565018768972459532011-01-16T07:04:00.375-06:002011-01-16T07:04:00.375-06:00I on the other hand I am glad I live in a mostly C...<i>I on the other hand I am glad I live in a mostly Christian country, because we can have these conversations over the net... Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms. Just compare that with nations that their political system promotes Atheism, or follow a different "mainstream" religion. What does that say about Christian morality? I would take a few pious, sanctimonious hypocrites every day that I can call them that in their faces, than a gag in the mouth...</i><br /><br />Atheism cannot be the cause of anything, because it's not positing anything. Atheists in general are some of the most avid and active defenders of freedom you'll meet (Secularism).<br /><br />I assume you're not referring to hihgly secular nations, for two reasons. First, they are some of the best places on the planet to live. Secondly, secular != atheist.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32258589306344765922011-01-16T07:03:10.773-06:002011-01-16T07:03:10.773-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30942383230655867492011-01-16T06:45:29.227-06:002011-01-16T06:45:29.227-06:00Vassilis: "Unfortunately for atheists it can ...Vassilis: "Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms."<br /><br />Okay, if it's so easy, do it.Jagyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17953915273948978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65053259251274763082011-01-16T06:14:27.947-06:002011-01-16T06:14:27.947-06:00Wow, that was so disgusting... Morals like that in...Wow, that was so disgusting... Morals like that in school? I think I'm having a stroke...ernobiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13872778498473437876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-66206238192627235012011-01-16T06:09:39.632-06:002011-01-16T06:09:39.632-06:00My favorite response from Hunter so far is at the ...My favorite response from Hunter so far is at the <a href="http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?s=ed153ad8772ace01f1ab6f675188e3af&p=5711249&postcount=7" rel="nofollow">Absolute Write fora</a>:<br /><br />"If you have attempted to publish a book via one of the self-publishing arenas, you will pay considerably more than $149."<br /><br />I haven't priced any self-publishing presses lately, but I'm pretty sure that in return for your money, they'll promise to print however many copies of your book you specify, and will even let you keep your copyright.arensbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15251547886605570242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65493649383257656592011-01-16T05:59:44.074-06:002011-01-16T05:59:44.074-06:00"are you saying there are no... con artists b..."are you saying there are no... con artists between atheists?"<br /><br />Oh totally. You've uncovered the hidden message in Martin's post: "All atheists are perfect". Clearly that is the only possible inference one can take away from all this.<br /><br />Derp.Paukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254574123678456537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52455019839777889732011-01-16T04:28:58.778-06:002011-01-16T04:28:58.778-06:00Martin, are you saying there are no... con artists...Martin, are you saying there are no... con artists between atheists? What does that say about... Atheists morality!!! I mean, have you run out of... subjects? Come on...!!!<br /><br />As for taking on other religions, you are also right. I didn't look it up, I am sorry. <br /><br />You have 99,00% Christian bashing (some of it, especially when it comes to dogma is also correct) and a few about the second largest religion, Muslims... and even those articles are about the extremists. Now, living in a mostly Christian country that is to be expected I suppose.<br /><br />I on the other hand I am glad I live in a mostly Christian country, because we can have these conversations over the net... Unfortunately for atheists it can easily be proven that Christian morality helps with political freedoms. Just compare that with nations that their political system promotes Atheism, or follow a different "mainstream" religion. What does that say about Christian morality? I would take a few pious, sanctimonious hypocrites every day that I can call them that in their faces, than a gag in the mouth...<br /><br />I suspect you will go on bashing, and I will go on enjoying your articles and our conversations.<br /><br />Having said that, the article is 100% right about the rules of the contest and Karen Hunter does sound like a pious, sanctimonious hypocrites (love the way this sound in English). The connection with Christian morality however is a little... absurd and clearly an overkill.Βασίλειος Περαντζάκηςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09039123670376723121noreply@blogger.com