tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post6136635061483994623..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Is everything about religion bad?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-89820563807734003512010-08-29T20:10:39.771-05:002010-08-29T20:10:39.771-05:00Is everything about racism bad?
Religion is racis...Is everything about racism bad?<br /><br />Religion is racism.<br /><br />or.<br /><br />Religion constructs identity in such a way that self is good, other is bad; self is right, other is wrong.<br /><br />God gives the individual constructed self authoritative power. For one believer this authority tells the self to hate gays, for another it tells the believer to do unto others as you would have done unto you.<br /><br />But ultimately since there is no god, the authority figure is only the self, the believer, seeking to empower his or her own belief and prejudice. <br /><br />A greater ethics depends upon the ability of the individual to see the other as equal, to respect the other. Religion by constructing an authoritative superior self destroys this ability, and as a result creates a societal structure that is most completely dysfunctional. (See how the most religious support war, but oppose advancements in health care and education). <br /><br />Only when people are able to abandon their desire for this power, this difference, is there any real hope for social progress.<br /><br />The world is full of, dominated by believers, and look at what they have created. War, poverty, hunger. <br /><br />Religion is a mechanism for the construction of power, and people are drawn to it because of this.<br /><br />It is easier to harm/devalue the other when he/she is different than when he/she is similar/equal. Religion does this and little more.<br /><br />Oh, but some of those churches sure are pretty.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02746694048456149710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-75697043132035819752010-08-28T17:07:37.699-05:002010-08-28T17:07:37.699-05:00In a web discussion with one such god person, he w...In a web discussion with one such god person, he was trying to claim that because of the phrase "These commandments are the greatest, love god and love others" (paraphrased), then everything was okeedokey.<br /><br />I then asked him about Abraham, and whether it was ok to try to kill your child when you heard god telling you to. He said you have to really make sure that it is really God. So I ask again, but adding the "If you're really sure, then it's ok to kill your kids?"<br />"Yup"<br />"So, Andrea Yates did the right thing?"<br /><br />He tried to claim that she really wasn't talking to God, when I asked him how she should have known. No answer.<br /><br />Nice, "respectable" guy...thinks that murdering your children is sometimes ok.<br /><br />That's terrifying.maddogdeltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17657824720032887242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-6389196686316574792010-08-25T00:53:24.060-05:002010-08-25T00:53:24.060-05:00Ing- Not only does it discourage you from doing th...Ing- Not only does it discourage you from doing the work but if you do and come to a different conclusion, it also fosters the impulse that <i>you</i> are the one that is wrong and loathsome for even entertaining the idea in the first place.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802892952926113605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-67543194964365156212010-08-24T16:41:38.990-05:002010-08-24T16:41:38.990-05:00@Jeramy
Right, it's a mental sand trap. It l...@Jeramy<br /><br />Right, it's a mental sand trap. It locks you into a state of mind and discourages you from doing the work to break out. And worse of all it spills into other categories. How many Conservative Christians are batshit insane and worship the neocons as much as Robertson? How many of the liberal christians are insane? etc etcInghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-51159195786085015772010-08-21T08:30:31.958-05:002010-08-21T08:30:31.958-05:00@tracieh: then share my praise with him :)
And kud...@tracieh: then share my praise with him :)<br />And kudos to all the team!ernobiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13872778498473437876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-16606226335173361742010-08-21T03:33:24.478-05:002010-08-21T03:33:24.478-05:00I don't know if everything about religion is b...I don't know if <i>everything</i> about religion is bad. However, religion does have an unmatched ability to suppress self- examination and criticism of ideas in its adherents. This attribute encourages believers to not only accept ideas like the above mentioned "I don't care if it's true..." with a sincere belief that it is reasonable but that it is worthy of propagation. While that means good ideas will be promoted and enacted it also means that bad ideas will be unthinkingly acted upon, causing untold damage to people and society, in countless ways for lengthy amounts of time before someone, somewhere might get an inkling that something is not quite right. <br /><br />Sadly, when they do decide that a religous belief doesn't gel with reality, what replaces it is far too often just a slightly watered- down version of the original religious belief that started the whole mess in the first place.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01802892952926113605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21198948466135683422010-08-20T14:43:20.443-05:002010-08-20T14:43:20.443-05:00Thanks ernobius. I did the art on that, but it was...Thanks ernobius. I did the art on that, but it was Don Baker's concept and content. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-53572336818800127682010-08-20T09:34:51.483-05:002010-08-20T09:34:51.483-05:00I remember being part of the "collateral dama...I remember being part of the "collateral damage" thingy... Struggling to swallow all the crap religion offers and trying to melt it with science and truth. Tracie, as you were the one to post this, I couldn't help but remember the awesome "Apologetics Aerobics" from Atheist Eve. That sums up everything.ernobiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13872778498473437876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-87590486989688702262010-08-20T08:44:35.758-05:002010-08-20T08:44:35.758-05:00>"can we get the good parts without the ba...>"can we get the good parts without the bad?"<br /><br />Exactly. At another site someone replied that religion does the "good" part "better" than any other mechanism. My immeidiate thought was the Catholic church in African nations with high HIV rates.<br /><br />If we gave the resources the Catholic church has access to, to a Humanist group, with the goal of improving things in AIDS ravaged nations, do I think we could achieve a better result?<br /><br />Yes. And I'd be willing to test that out to see if it works.<br /><br />Just because an antiquited mechanism has a strangle hold on resources is no reason to assert it's "better"--its just got the goods other groups don't. And it distributes those goods with a healthy dose of damage to humanity.<br /><br />Everyday in our lives, we see how when our beliefs better align with reality, we are better able to achieve our goals and live better lives. It's better for me in my life to stop at a red light than to ignore it--if my goal is to keep on living happily and safely and not do harm to others.<br /><br />And yet with religion, we seem to think we can't provide aid without instilling beliefs that demonstrably do not align with reality--and then want to deny that disconnect is responsible for any damage, or that the damage it causes--which is significant--is outweighed by the "good"--much of which is simply making people feel good after you've stripped them of their human dignity using that same religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-3073382052022358762010-08-20T08:23:43.269-05:002010-08-20T08:23:43.269-05:00I think this issue have been best met by the recen...I think this issue have been best met by the recent AETV episode where Aron sat in.<br /><br />He said whenever it comes to questions like this, it is basically theists trying to portray as religion bringing good to people or bringing good out of people.<br /><br />So do religion attract good people? Apparently if we have been around enough we do meet alot of believers who do good in everyday life that is difficult for us to paint a bad picture of even if we try.<br /><br />So does that means religion makes people good? With that question, he began to bring up all the data showing correlations between religions and crime. Which is the more religious, the more crimes likely to be committed and the more likely they are to be more hideous. Teenage sex and teen pregnancy, number of criminals in prisons that are religious, that only a motivation such as religion will get people to blow themselves up killing anywhere from dozens to thousands as a result... etc etc.<br /><br />So it is obvious that on this side of the equation, religion does not make people good or bring goodness to people. Which is why he phrase it as "Do religion attract good people?"<br /><br />Because if religious does not bring out the better in people, it seems that no matter the belief, it depends on what kind of person he/she is inherently that causes him/her to make they decisisons they make.<br /><br />With that aside, how many things can be certainly attributed to dogma brought by religion? The answer is very clear.<br /><br />Besides, from religions such as buddhism, zen buddhism and taoism, which have its roots in philosophy, it would be as Christopher Hitchens said... where religion fails, philosophy shall rise up.<br /><br />So religion have no place and does not bring good to people. The philosophy aspect of religion brings the good people to it to do its good work. Without religion, this world will be rid of one tool that has for thousands of years divided human beings.<br /><br />My 2 cents, if i were to answer that sender, this is what i will tell him/her.SaintDLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13680120250045960685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-15532951289441014762010-08-20T07:54:36.217-05:002010-08-20T07:54:36.217-05:00When you separate the good parts of religion from ...When you separate the good parts of religion from the bad and then discard the bad can what you have left really be called religion at all?Mark Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12082856602483276803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-70574362758474832012010-08-19T22:14:03.978-05:002010-08-19T22:14:03.978-05:00"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.&quo..."Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."<br /><br />In all seriousness, I guess it's fun to pretend to have unassailable ideas. I'm going to have to have to copy this. When I give great advice, I deserve all the credit. When I give miserable advice, and it backfires horribly...totally the advisee's fault.Michael Namhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18065001592912169409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8473730870106954232010-08-19T21:39:15.097-05:002010-08-19T21:39:15.097-05:00I don't know about other religions, but Wester...I don't know about other religions, but Western ones at least seem to just take credit for the good of people and sweep their horrible acolytes under the rug. <br /><br />For all the claims of Christianity being "love" I sure see a lot of sermons preaching hate.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-86102023096979326882010-08-19T18:33:28.552-05:002010-08-19T18:33:28.552-05:00I've found that when an atheist says anything ...I've found that when an atheist says anything critical about faith, many theists hear "religion is all bad" and/or "all religion is bad". <br /><br />I've often been accused of saying such though I haven't said it and don't think it.<br /><br />I don't believe there are "divine truths" however-- and, as such, I think all religions are untrue in that they all claim to have access to such.<br /><br />I think what is really going on is that religious people can't stand that some people feel the same way about their religion as the religious person feels about other cults and wacky beliefs-- and for the same reason! So, instead they imagine the atheist is saying something else so they can feel smug fighting the straw man rather than addressing what is actually said.articuletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09902568587446268437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-26504121696396264162010-08-19T18:26:55.767-05:002010-08-19T18:26:55.767-05:00"Yes.""Yes."George From NYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06158111795024631345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-81077955083579916612010-08-19T17:43:45.326-05:002010-08-19T17:43:45.326-05:00I think the main problem with believers is that th...I think the main problem with believers is that they confuse worship and morality. And they also have at best a vague idea of what their holy book contains about morality and ethic. It is easier to cherry pick when you have preconceived ideas about something you barely read, and/or double think about.Guillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-15571106407215154322010-08-19T17:09:47.411-05:002010-08-19T17:09:47.411-05:00Well here is the thing. It should be pretty obvio...Well here is the thing. It should be pretty obvious that our morality and decisions are determined by numerous factors. From evolutionary predispositions, to learned behaviors, to life experiences, and more. Religion is just another input. It is a human construct used to spread influence and ideas (either good or bad), like a book, or a wall street journal opinion piece. As much as believers would like to pretend otherwise, it doesn't have any special properties all on it's own.<br /><br />The point isn't to try and weigh the good parts against the bad or worry about interpetations. We know it is a mixed bag desipite the one persons refusal to admit it. The question is, "can we get the good parts without the bad?", and certainly most atheists or secular humanists would say that we can. We can teach people to help others, not steal, not kill, etc without religion. Religion is kind of like chemo therapy. It might do some good, but it has a lot of negative side effects as well. If we were to discover some other treatment for cancer tomorrow that could have the same good effects without all the negative we would drop chemo in an instant and switch over to the new treatment. That is basically why I personally wouldn't categorize religion as 'bad' per se, but simply unneccessary. A poor treatment with potential hazardous side effects and unlike chemo it (fortunately) isn't the only option we have at the moment.Jeremiahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06977623156609966553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-40797838377215476282010-08-19T16:10:31.044-05:002010-08-19T16:10:31.044-05:00If Tracie "I see your point and have written ...If Tracie "<i>I see your point and have written a detailed 25 page response</i>" H. can be accused of "simplifying" the issue, then no one is safe.Derek CAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04861722187567221950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76675156980351595822010-08-19T15:31:56.624-05:002010-08-19T15:31:56.624-05:00This brings to mind the famous stories of Voltaire...This brings to mind the famous stories of Voltaire. Apparently, he and his friends would have intense discussions about atheism, but if a servant entered the room, they'd immediately change subjects and start talking about the importance of piety and God. Asked why, he replied that for the less intelligent, religion is the only way to keep them good. <br /><br />Interestingly, religion says the same thing about the state - see Pirkei Avos.Puzzledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12866127197554237039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61675730935374285882010-08-19T15:01:45.828-05:002010-08-19T15:01:45.828-05:00Ah, Tracy, but you forget the officially recognize...Ah, Tracy, but you forget the officially recognized standard of what constitutes a "simplistic view of religion", namely, one that admits of negative connotations. Or even worse, one can be even more simplistic, nay, <i>fundamentalist</i>, by claiming that religion makes truth-valued claims which can be evaluated by "Western ways of knowing" like reason and logic.<br /><br />*Cue Karen Armstrong, Peter Enns, etc.*Zachary Vochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06226360994749986604noreply@blogger.com