tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post5335104352597848820..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Why marriage?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52207072098419663852011-09-27T05:23:52.742-05:002011-09-27T05:23:52.742-05:00Oh gosh, Adam, the supreme dictator of America, ha...Oh gosh, Adam, the supreme dictator of America, has stated his decision. I guess the discussion's over then.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-82818137423944293462011-09-27T01:54:01.243-05:002011-09-27T01:54:01.243-05:00No it is not OK for gays to get married. It is OK ...No it is not OK for gays to get married. It is OK that they are friends like David and Jonathan. Sometimes it is good to practice bisexuality with Basheeba.Adaml11600https://www.blogger.com/profile/15488556774704996744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-3081697479294356302011-08-24T02:59:15.635-05:002011-08-24T02:59:15.635-05:00I find the documentary Tying the Knot to be very i...I find the documentary Tying the Knot to be very informative on this issue. I am a lesbian; my best friend, and house mate, is not. That being said, sexuality aside, we consider ourselves partners. We are, at this point in our lives (we've known each other for 20 years), committed to living together for the next 60. She's my power of attorney, and I'm hers. Other than that, willing our belongings to one another has proven to be an arduous task. There have also been many issues with getting bills paid, authorizing work on the house, or even having our dog groomed. My partner (after all, we are committed to each other for life) once had a stranger tell her she'd pray for us after I left the lobby of the hotel we were staying at. Apparently she'd over heard us talking about "our house" and "our dog" and made assumptions. This brings me back to who cares what you do (or don't do) behind closed doors? If you are in a healthy relationship and want to spend the rest of your lives together, why shouldn't you? It's just a legal contract. "I like vagina" shouldn't be an exclusionary clause.TamiTheNannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05828290676974742427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58174226841480676512011-08-18T09:34:10.961-05:002011-08-18T09:34:10.961-05:00By the way, the guy who originally had the objecti...By the way, the guy who originally had the objections to marriage is still writing to us. One of the reasons he claims to dislike marriage is that "I was basically forced to get legally married to get [my girlfriend] a visa."<br /><br />I replied:<br /><br />What the WHAT?!?!?<br /><br />You weren't "forced" to get married. You CHOSE to get married because that was the only way you could think of to get her a visa. Getting a visa is hard -- THAT'S your legal problem, not marriage. There are other ways to get a visa, but none of them were convenient for you. Luckily, marriage is available as a shortcut. Obviously the burden of being married was worth the value of an easy visa to you, or you wouldn't have done it. If marriage hadn't existed, you would have had to either find another, more difficult solution, or not gotten one at all. That's it. Complain about immigration if that's your problem.<br /><br />You sound like somebody complaining that you can't get a ride to work because there aren't any buses near you, forcing you to drive your own car; so you wish they would outlaw cars for everybody. You're complaining about the solution you found to your own problem because you wish there were better solutions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-45364716878115739142011-08-17T16:07:58.338-05:002011-08-17T16:07:58.338-05:00It doesn't require you to lie. What it does i...It doesn't require you to lie. What it does is create a category of legal marriage which is basically defined as any two people who say they are married and live together. That's basically what "common-law" marriage refers to everywhere, or so I have thought. If you are required to perform some kind of official act then it's just regular workaday marriage. So what exactly are you claiming the US lacks?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06573534432229961966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-13187886709361553282011-08-17T06:12:01.544-05:002011-08-17T06:12:01.544-05:00"Not so. In Texas if you are with the same pa..."Not so. In Texas if you are with the same partner for, I think, 10 years, present to the public as if you are married, etc, you are considered to be a common-law spouse with all the legal rights/responsibilities that entails." <br /><br />So most states don't even have common-law marriage and in Texas you must have an agreement to be married and be holding out as married to the public. So you essentially are required to lie. Seems awesome to me.icedwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14959861941406156598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68782303800075737852011-08-17T05:51:43.002-05:002011-08-17T05:51:43.002-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68488392794845199172011-08-17T04:52:25.352-05:002011-08-17T04:52:25.352-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61679689857894776602011-08-16T17:21:03.149-05:002011-08-16T17:21:03.149-05:00Am I the only one who thinks that "Gulen Char...Am I the only one who thinks that "Gulen Charter Truth"s post has nothing to do with the topic, and it is probably spam?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8302324470778459472011-08-16T17:05:15.743-05:002011-08-16T17:05:15.743-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Gulen Charter Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03399516715394564308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-4086178644597125592011-08-16T12:32:42.032-05:002011-08-16T12:32:42.032-05:00Marriage is actually a legal contract between two ...Marriage is actually a legal contract between two people. Love isn't even required. I don't think you even legally have to "consummate" the marriage, although a spouse supposedly has the right to divorce if the other party isn't fulfilling their conjugal duties. I loved the Boston Legal episode where Denny and Alan got married so Alan could inherit Denny's money without penalties.<br />Personally, I don't believe marriage is necessary, but did it because of pressure from my dad and her son.nude0007https://www.blogger.com/profile/17427383503777946860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-57330502935904144672011-08-16T10:54:31.539-05:002011-08-16T10:54:31.539-05:00In Texas as long as both parties have lived togeth...In Texas as long as both parties have lived together for six months and both parties identify each other as husband and wife in public They are common law married...unless the Texas common law marriage laws have changed in the last 6 years.Father Of Lightshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01596689529836270188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71475711154633667002011-08-16T10:28:08.454-05:002011-08-16T10:28:08.454-05:00That's right, like everyone else here I don...That's right, like everyone else here I don't have a problem with people in love getting married; that's what it's for, so I'd be opposed to people being forced into schmerriges because there love seems somehow less to whomever opposes them. That remark was my sarcastic test one liner, since this topic came up recently on AETV a lot with that one Hater. I'll try to make an excellent and deep point this time! (and fail).<br /><br />As for why I'd care about marriage as an atheist: I can picture a couple falling in love, deciding to merry and having a ceremony and not see religion as an important part in that at all. I mean, you might get Ra bi or a Priest, but they aren't important, the lovers are important. So my question would be why is religion so important?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-74690662516542581092011-08-16T09:27:24.532-05:002011-08-16T09:27:24.532-05:00"We're finally on our own,"???
The r..."We're finally on our own,"???<br />The religious Wheeling Police kicked-in our door.<br />Read my blog, before it's your door.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03037704048671379868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-33335004343743160472011-08-16T09:03:48.896-05:002011-08-16T09:03:48.896-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8428825081479733082011-08-16T08:43:56.754-05:002011-08-16T08:43:56.754-05:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_i...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_in_the_United_States<br /><br />"Common-law marriage can still be contracted in ten states (Alabama, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire (posthumously), Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah) and in the District of Columbia."The Fuck-Uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424379897087177800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21931558225377336262011-08-16T08:06:20.288-05:002011-08-16T08:06:20.288-05:00Steven: I'm sure you're kidding, but the p...Steven: I'm sure you're kidding, but the point of my "schmarriage" quip was to point out that it's ridiculous to claim to supposedly support homosexuals' rights to have all the legal benefits of marriage tied up under a different name, and yet deny their right to use the particular legal contract of marriage for the same purpose. It's unnecessary busywork that makes no sense. And people who do want to stop gay people from marrying generally want to stop them from schmarrying as well, if it means giving them tax breaks and letting them use each other's health insurance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-92110273983018389122011-08-16T08:02:19.145-05:002011-08-16T08:02:19.145-05:00JJR - no, it's much shorter than ten years. A...JJR - no, it's much shorter than ten years. Actually the sites I'm finding claim that it's simply cohabiting for "a significant period of time" that isn't specified in most places. I heard it could be as short as six months, I think.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68867880328564132432011-08-16T07:58:01.963-05:002011-08-16T07:58:01.963-05:00It's not so much that a line exists, as there ...It's not so much that a line exists, as there is a clear wrong on one side, a mostly clear wrong on the other, and a lot of fuzzy stuff in the middle. Certainly just about everyone is going to agree that it's wrong for an adult to take advantage of an 8 year old, and that an 18 year old is old enough to make his or her own decisions. 16 is arguable, I'd say. Generally statutory laws make allowances for people who are near the same age; I think if you're over 14 and your partner is within 2 years above you then you're in safe territory. A 14 year old with an adult is pretty dicey territory, IMHO.<br /><br />The precise spot of the line is certainly open to question, but it has to exist <i>somewhere</i>. There are lots of laws that take a specific age into account -- sale of alcohol, legal military service, voting, driving age. The fact that those ages could be raised and lowered doesn't mean that we should be putting a five year old behind the wheel of a car.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-55405767100342914112011-08-16T07:46:34.430-05:002011-08-16T07:46:34.430-05:00@ Warp
I agree that age alone cannot fully define ...@ Warp<br />I agree that age alone cannot fully define informed consent. People are different and have different levels of understanding and maturity that are not guaranteed by a particular age.<br /><br />In the US, 18 years correlates to the ability of someone to complete all the education they are entitled to by the state. Naturally, there are some that can finish early and some that will not finish at all, but overall most people will be at a level of education consistent with being able to make decisions for themselves and understand the consequences.<br /><br />So age is a bit of a convenient simplification that has a few glaring holes in it, but it is a decent place to start the discussion. Clearly if you go young enough informed consent can eventually be considered absurd, and if you consider an age high enough you will have to bring in specific extenuating circumstances to demonstrate incompetence sufficient to absolve responsibility in decision making. The lines may be a bit blurry, but they are there.John K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11579041716600940838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-9506339507537124522011-08-16T07:02:00.516-05:002011-08-16T07:02:00.516-05:00Not really related to marriage per se, but the iss...Not really related to marriage per se, but the issue of "informed consent" has been brought up in this discussion.<br /><br />I find it curious how most people seem to have some kind of contradictory double-think with regard to this issue. On one hand they firmly agree that age of consent limits must be imposed and obeyed, for the protection of minors. On the other hand they also agree that the legal age of consent inside a jurisdiction is quite arbitrary, subjective (it can change quite a lot between jurisdictions) and basically just an agreement.<br /><br />There are some countries where the legal age of consent is 21 (I think at least Bahrain is one). There are others where it's 16. (And there are even others where it can go as low as 14 and even 12.) Curiously, most people consider 18 to be the magical universal age of consent completely regardless of what the actual legal age of consent in their country might be (as said, 16 is a rather common one).<br /><br />Where is this magical number 18 coming from?<br /><br />The legal age of consent is quite arbitrary bey necessity because the true age of consent can vary wildly from individual to individual. Some people could be psychologically perfectly ready for and give fully informed consent to sex and marriage at 14, while others are not ready even at 24. The legal age has to be set somewhere by necessity. This makes it necessarily arbitrary and subjective.<br /><br />Yet still the same people who agree with this also often have very strong opinions on breaking these laws. But what is this strong attitude based on? This same person might at the same time fully admit that the limit is subjective and arbitrary.<br /><br />If a citizen of a country where legal age of consent is 21 comes to a country where it's 18 or even 16 and declares the country to be depraved and morally bankrupt, what is the argument to declare him right or wrong? Why is 18 (or 16) the correct age and not 21?Warphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13189653852079173848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76047539416557353422011-08-16T06:55:55.298-05:002011-08-16T06:55:55.298-05:00"Wow the US really lacks any useful common-la..."Wow the US really lacks any useful common-law marriage laws."<br /><br />Not so. In Texas if you are with the same partner for, I think, 10 years, present to the public as if you are married, etc, you are considered to be a common-law spouse with all the legal rights/responsibilities that entails.JJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373297787542059116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17281871397330701312011-08-16T06:28:45.913-05:002011-08-16T06:28:45.913-05:00Gale said.
"Secular marriage already is diff...Gale said.<br /><br />"Secular marriage already is different from religious marriage".<br /><br />This totally correct because in a legal sense religious marriage doesn't exist.<br /><br />A religious marriage service without the appropriate state recognition is not valid.<br /><br />This is another aspect of the real world that christians want to re-write to suit their own agenda.Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16439248183580550162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68395287916830748002011-08-16T05:28:58.166-05:002011-08-16T05:28:58.166-05:00If consenting adults want to be married to more th...If consenting adults want to be married to more than one person, then who is to say they shouldn't? I think bringing up the pedophilia angle isn't warranted. That's already illegal. Just because some groups have been involved with both pedophilia AND polygamy shouldn't place a bad mark on polygamy. There's nothing wrong with polygamy. It's the underage marriages and sex that is the issue.<br /><br />I don't think associating the two is fair. There's no link there.The Fuck-Uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424379897087177800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-83311122835458488602011-08-16T05:23:53.373-05:002011-08-16T05:23:53.373-05:00The whole "Marriage is a religious thing"...The whole "Marriage is a religious thing" argument seems kind of pointless to me. People drink red wine (or grape juice, heh) all the time, and it's not transubstantiation unless it's actually part of that particular ceremony. A person who doesn't have access to food other than an evening soup kitchen isn't celebrating Ramadan unless they specifically believe they are. People take baths whenever they want to, and it's not a baptism unless it is. Religious ceremonies are opt-in, as it were, and the only people I've seen argue otherwise are the people who pretty much consider ceremonies to be magic spells, and they - I would imagine - are a smaller population than the people who simply believe that the only power anything really has is in terms of how respectful it is to their deity. Secular marriage already <i>is</i> different from religious marriage; it's inherently so, by virtue of not being religious, a far more significant factor than the gender of the participants. <br /><br />That's something that only really applies to monotheists, but it's the monotheists that are standing in the way of marriage equality, so I'm fine with being specific, in these circumstances.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17992678302867974630noreply@blogger.com