tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post5094888097159694408..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: And now, a rant: Christians can't be happy unless they're making gays unhappy. That's mean. Mean people suck.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger129125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7629227125109783282009-01-31T19:54:00.000-06:002009-01-31T19:54:00.000-06:00If my experience building networks has taught me a...If my experience building networks has taught me anything, it's that the pinouts don't change the cable. Whether you're terminated as straight-through or cross-over, beneath the shielding, we're all the same twisted pairs.<BR/><BR/>- JackJack Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08416110713725623701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-45276995479385722492009-01-11T18:13:00.001-06:002009-01-11T18:13:00.001-06:00BTW, though I don't expect you to understand it (s...BTW, though I don't expect you to understand it (since you are pretty thick), I agree with your syllogism about french fries 100%.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21253050508006330512009-01-11T18:13:00.000-06:002009-01-11T18:13:00.000-06:00Martin, How precisely does your GtMCH provide the ...Martin, <BR/><BR/>How <B>precisely</B> does your GtMCH provide the precondition for logic?<BR/>How do you know anything about GtMCH? What are GtMCH's characteristics? <BR/>Why should anyone believe in sthg that you grant you just made up? (Of course, Christians don't grant at all that we just made up TGOTB.) I'll appreciate your responses, and none of these are rhetorical questions, but I don't expect very good ones (given prior experience and your habit of avoiding the toughies).Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30423372924968937122009-01-11T09:42:00.000-06:002009-01-11T09:42:00.000-06:00Gee Dan, you seem like such an attention whore.My ...Gee Dan, you seem like such an attention whore.<BR/><BR/>My "A" game? <BR/><BR/>Did you forget that I've already stumped you?TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-35266427742456221262009-01-10T22:28:00.000-06:002009-01-10T22:28:00.000-06:001. Gus the Magic Cosmic Hippo is the necessary pre...1. Gus the Magic Cosmic Hippo is the necessary precondition for logic (by the impossibility of the contrary).<BR/>2. Logic exists.<BR/>3. Therefore Gus the Magic Cosmic Hippo exists.<BR/><BR/>Cool!<BR/><BR/>Hey, here's another one.<BR/><BR/>1. God is the necessary precondition for making french fries (by the impossibility of the contrary).<BR/>2. French fries exist.<BR/>3. Therefore God exists.<BR/><BR/>And another one.<BR/><BR/>1. Gus the Magic Cosmic Hippo is the necessary precondition for God (by the impossibility of the contrary).<BR/>2. God is the necessary precondition for logic (by the impossibility of the contrary).<BR/>3. Logic exists.<BR/>4. Therefore God exists.<BR/>5. Therefore Gus the Magic Cosmic Hippo exists.<BR/><BR/>I see how it works now. 1) Make up an imaginary friend. 2) Assert that something else could not exist without your imaginary friend. 3) Do a quickie syllogism. 4) Presto! "Proof!"<BR/><BR/>This religion stuff sure is easy! <BR/><BR/>Maybe next week we can start you on eating with a fork, Dan.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8120283443847660852009-01-10T20:56:00.000-06:002009-01-10T20:56:00.000-06:00Stronger Now,Why Dan...my how thou dost judgeth me...Stronger Now,<BR/><BR/><I>Why Dan...my how thou dost judgeth me?</I><BR/><BR/>Who said it's <A HREF="http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2008/07/should-christians-judge-atheists_29.html" REL="nofollow">wrong to judge</A>?<BR/><BR/><I>But I see now one must fight fire with fire, I think I'll take my show on the road.</I><BR/><BR/>My blog rules are "Bring your "A" game. If you have one."<BR/><BR/><I>"Also, nice that you didn't post a link so others wouldn't be able to see the quote in context."</I><BR/><BR/>It's on my latest post.<BR/><BR/>1. God is the necessary precondition for logic (by the impossibility of the contrary).<BR/>2. Logic exists<BR/>3. Therefore God exists.<BR/><BR/>Are there such a thing as moral absolutes? here is a hint...Yes.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-48284740752030048682009-01-10T19:58:00.000-06:002009-01-10T19:58:00.000-06:00Rho, Again, astonishingly supports a "might makes ...Rho, Again, astonishingly supports a "might makes right" argument for his preferred moral "standard". At least he seems to.<BR/><BR/>"I recognise one as objective and adopt it as my own doesn't make it subjective."<BR/><BR/>The believers of every other god will agree that their god is their moral standard and objectivley real.<BR/><BR/>Great then, I recognize myself as the objective standard for my moral authority. Naner naner.<BR/><BR/>I have credible evidence for me. I recognize myself as being morally superior to your "standard" of morality.<BR/><BR/>Can you tell me why my standard isn't superior to yours?<BR/><BR/> I can tell that you seem very comfortable making claims of credibility. I disagree, obviously, so you stating as such seems, well, silly. I haven't seen said "evidence" but you apply the term "credible" and also describe it as not objective.<BR/><BR/>Credible subjective evidence. Nice. Obvously this should not do for any reasonable person. <BR/><BR/>Again, this has little to do with whether your adopted morality is the standard. The biblegod could be evil. Just because you believe him to be good doesn't make it so. You are useing what you prefer to call good as your moral "standard". Objectivity doesn't come in to play. You must decide for yourself whether you are worshipping an evil god or not. Is your standard objective? Hardly. You still chose according to your preference. You perfer the biblegod because you believe he is good. But evil men and gods are supported by people who believed they are good, as you yourself do with your beliefs of the biblegod.<BR/><BR/>Yes it's an inside joke. Sort of.TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8803640224848433732009-01-10T19:17:00.000-06:002009-01-10T19:17:00.000-06:00stronger now,You're welcome to "correct" my site. ...stronger now,<BR/><BR/>You're welcome to "correct" my site. Come on over. If your acumen is anywhere near as sharp as that which you've demonstrated here, it'll be great to have you. <BR/><BR/><I>why do you believe what them wicked liars wrote?</I><BR/><BR/>Is this some sort of inside joke? What are you referring to?Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-2299789037312810002009-01-10T19:04:00.000-06:002009-01-10T19:04:00.000-06:00Still can't answer that can you Dan?Nope instead y...Still can't answer that can you Dan?<BR/><BR/>Nope instead you try to redirect the attention to something else.<BR/><BR/>In this case it's a little late for your silly psychobabble.<BR/><BR/>I was speaking figuratively, dan. As any person can plainly see. You seem to have a problem with telling the difference between factual statements and figurative prose. As your belief in the biblegod attests to.<BR/><BR/>Accusing me of hate?<BR/><BR/>Isn't hate akin to killing someone, according to your mythology?<BR/><BR/>Why Dan...my how thou dost judgeth me?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Oh and by the way, since you cannot seem to keep from being a jerk to me and other atheist and exchristians I think it's time I started correcting errors on christian websites. You see untill now I've been comfortable commenting only on atheist sites as I didn't want to be pushy. But I see now one must fight fire with fire (hint to dan that was figurative), I think I'll take my show on the road.(again, dan, I'm not really in a show nor am I planning a cross country tour)<BR/><BR/>You can feel proud of yourself for prompting such a response, dan.<BR/><BR/>Also, nice that you didn't post a link so others wouldn't be able to see the quote in context. You agree context is important don't you?<BR/><BR/>Now...why do you believe what them wicked liars wrote?TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17426395286388283392009-01-10T18:55:00.000-06:002009-01-10T18:55:00.000-06:00stronger now,Yes, the evidence is credible. I don...stronger now,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the evidence is credible. I don't believe "objective" evidence exists at all, except to God Himself, b/c all evidence is fact filtered thru a worldview.<BR/>And yes I know what the word "objective" means, and in a world where there are many choices of worldview available, just b/c I recognise one as objective and adopt it as my own doesn't make it subjective. If it's grounded in myself, then it's subjective. It depends on its grounding. <BR/>And who cares whether you think it's flawed? Offer an argument. And prove that, if the God of the Bible exists, a morality based on His character, expressed thru His commands, is not objective. <BR/>Cheers.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-22678034714474713282009-01-10T15:25:00.000-06:002009-01-10T15:25:00.000-06:00Yea, good times past Stronger Now, it was 10/27/20...Yea, good times past Stronger Now, it was 10/27/2007 when you posed the very first questions to me: <BR/><BR/><B><I>Dan Marvin,<BR/><BR/>Are we to accept your version of a deity without question? Are we to accept faulty evidence and base our lives on it, ignoring it's flaws?<BR/><BR/>Are we to ignore our own experiences and accept someone elses' without credible evidence?<BR/><BR/>How gullible do you think we are?</I></B><BR/><BR/>Ah, presuppositional good times.<BR/><BR/>I do sadly remember you claiming.<I><B> "I was "delivered" from my struggle BECAUSE I abandoned him.</B></I><BR/><BR/>I have missed our conversations and hope you could stop hating God for your abandonment.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71039830138227109182009-01-10T13:42:00.000-06:002009-01-10T13:42:00.000-06:00Just to be more clear, I've dealt with Dan Marvin ...Just to be more clear, I've dealt with Dan Marvin before at exchristian.net. He seems to get flustered when I ask him this(see my previous post) simple question.<BR/><BR/>He never failes to bring the stupid, as he does this time as well:<BR/><BR/><I>"Christianity has all the answers and everything you need to live life, not just practically but rationally. It's the only option available to man if we are going to save the household of knowledge."</I><BR/><BR/>Can anyone see the level of bullshittery involved here?<BR/><BR/>Anyone?<BR/><BR/>Anyone?TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-56462880492759909232009-01-10T13:19:00.000-06:002009-01-10T13:19:00.000-06:00Dan +++I will give it a shot. In the Atheistic wor...Dan +++<BR/><BR/><I>I will give it a shot. In the Atheistic worldview someone could rape and murder you with no fear of anything bad happening to them if they are not caught by people.</I><BR/><BR/>So, what happens if you are correct, and the Christain God exists. Perhaps I have this wrong, but what if the aforementioned rapist/murderer "finds Jesus" and asks to be saved on his/her deathbed? Are they not forgiven, thus negating any punishment?<BR/><BR/>Just a thought.<BR/><BR/>TRFRedFerrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08657147429327656796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-50632040684808769772009-01-10T12:54:00.000-06:002009-01-10T12:54:00.000-06:00Dan, You start with a common misconception, and th...Dan, <BR/><BR/>You start with a common misconception, and then take a leap of logic that doesn't quite make sense.<BR/><BR/>First you say:<BR/><I>n the Atheistic worldview someone could rape and murder you with no fear of anything bad happening to them if they are not caught by people.</I><BR/><BR/>This is a common statement within opposition to a subjective argument that is true, but holds true for an objective moral system as well. It just changes who catches you from other humans to whomever is the arbitrator of the moral system (in the Christian Mythos, God) so really this isn't a huge complaint against the moral system. <BR/><BR/>However you then go on to say:<BR/><BR/><I>If someone rejects Christianity they will end up, if their honest and consistent, at the bottom with radical skepticism</I><BR/><BR/>Which is a big leap that jumbles up the grouping of Atheism and non-Christian, two computable, but not equal terms. I'll let it slide as a slip of the tongue though, but this:<BR/><BR/><I>. All bets are off and all up for grabs. Completely arbitrary moral system; it's going to be pick and choose. People don't live like that though, we go to school and turn in papers on time so you can get the grade. With the Atheistic worldview, school doesn't matter; grades don't matter; education doesn't matter; nothing matters with that worldview.</I><BR/><BR/>is a statement that seems to leap from, "If you don't get caught nothing bad happens" to "It doesn't matter what you do" which are completely seperate ideas. Anyone goes to school to get the grade. Becoming an atheist doesn't suddenly make a grade cease to matter (and oh how I wished it did in chemistry class...). As for why someone wants good grades? The same as anyone that isn't an athiest, to hold a better position in society.<BR/><BR/>Then you start getting off topic:<BR/><BR/><I>Along with that, there is no answer for origins of life</I><BR/><BR/>Where is this from? Morality and the origin of life aren't really hugely connected (save in a religious world view) and there are several ideas that are offered for the origin of life. Simply because you wish they weren't true doesn't mean they aren't answers to the question. I don't believe your answer is true, does that mean you have no answer for the origin of life? Obviously not, so your position there is flawed.<BR/><BR/><I>If fact, they don't know if they themselves even exist. It's a sad worldview when you don't even know if you yourself exists.</I><BR/><BR/>Another odd leap. But in this case, it really applies to everyone. How do you know that you exists? Aside from empirical evidence that is also available to atheists?<BR/><BR/><I>You cannot say you are infallibly and inherently sure if 2+2=4 even</I><BR/><BR/>Bad example. 2+2=4 is a mathmatical proof meaning that it doesn't attempt to prove anything, merely represents that which is true. because it's definitionally true. In order for it to cease to be true, the definitions of two or four would have to change. Which feasibly it could, or have, but it doesn't really make a difference, we'd just have to change the names of the terms used, so that they represent that view again.<BR/><BR/><I>Christianity, on the other hand, is completely compatible with reality, relative to Radical Skepticism.</I><BR/><BR/>Save instances where one must assume events occuring that are not observable in reality.Amnistarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463779953148898579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30186301711351036692009-01-10T12:36:00.000-06:002009-01-10T12:36:00.000-06:00Dan, no offense, since this is the first time I've...Dan, no offense, since this is the first time I've seen you post here, but this a long-winded versions of what we've all heard before.<BR/><BR/>And your whole post is like a logical fallacy salad.<BR/><BR/><I>If someone rejects Christianity they will end up, if their honest and consistent, at the bottom with radical skepticism. All bets are off and all up for grabs. Completely arbitrary moral system; it's going to be pick and choose</I><BR/><BR/>Here you give us a false dilemma - where you assert that the only two honest and consistent positions are biblical Christianity, as you define it, or radical skepticism. <BR/><BR/>It also looks like the slippery slope fallacy, where you take what you deem your first undesirable action - rejecting Christianity, and indicating that honesty and consistency demands a 'slide' to an ultimate undesirable - radical skepticism.<BR/><BR/>Those are just a few examples. I'm sure many other readers can point out others.Kyle Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04569432667084294505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-22356072547503684842009-01-10T12:26:00.000-06:002009-01-10T12:26:00.000-06:00Dan, why do you believe what them wicked liars wro...Dan, why do you believe what them wicked liars wrote?<BR/><BR/>Get back on the wheel little hamster, and see how your circular reasoning works out for you.TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31570735489423213332009-01-10T11:10:00.000-06:002009-01-10T11:10:00.000-06:00Stronger now,Really? I suspect that there is a rea...Stronger now,<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>Really? I suspect that there is a reason you left off the part about said "evidence" being credible and objective. Why is that?</I><BR/><BR/>I will give it a shot. In the Atheistic worldview someone could rape and murder you with no fear of anything bad happening to them if they are not caught by people. Objective morality just doesn't exist in the atheists worldview. If someone rejects Christianity they will end up, if their honest and consistent, at the bottom with radical skepticism. All bets are off and all up for grabs. Completely arbitrary moral system; it's going to be pick and choose. People don't live like that though, we go to school and turn in papers on time so you can get the grade. With the Atheistic worldview, school doesn't matter; grades don't matter; education doesn't matter; nothing matters with that worldview. It could all be a mirage or an illusion even, it could all be a waste of time. Along with that, there is no answer for origins of life. If fact, they don't know if they themselves even exist. It's a sad worldview when you don't even know if you yourself exists. You cannot say you are infallibly and inherently sure if 2+2=4 even. If atheism is true then Christianity is pretty ridiculous but again, if you're honest, you have no way of knowing that for sure, you have no way of knowing anything is true. Christianity, on the other hand, is completely compatible with reality, relative to Radical Skepticism.<BR/><BR/>Christianity offers a cohesive worldview whereby we do have an objective standard so when somebody tortures you; rapes you; kills you; we can say, No, that is wrong. It's not just personal preference, it's objectively wrong. We do have a revelation to the origin of life. Life doesn't come from non-life, life doesn't come from matter. Life comes from a Creative being called God. Christianity has all the answers and everything you need to live life, not just practically but rationally. It's the only option available to man if we are going to save the household of knowledge.<BR/><BR/>God is an all good God, according to Christian theism, which again is another necessity precondition for morality. Therefore, an all good God could not allow things get so bad in His universe whereby we don't have this concrete revelation of who He is and what He has done. So, therefore, the revelation that we do have, that we have to presuppose does become the transcendental (what first has to be the case in order to make the human experience intelligible) for meaningfulness, therefore it's necessitated. The Bible gives us that worldview that makes sense for human experience.<BR/><BR/>Let's apply that. Transcendentally, 2+2=4 is a law and conceptual, therefore it has to flow from a Divine mind and for it always to be the case and universally binding then it needs to come from a Divine mind that is omnipotent and immutable. So tomorrow 2+2 is still going to equal 4 as it was yesterday it has to become eternal, immaterial, abstract, and binding to all men which is only possible with the triune God of Scripture. Plus, in order for you to say 2+2=4 you have to be cognitive in your ability to reason in communication universally, plus you assume we will be cognitive to the same degree to understand what you mean. It's an immaterial universal concept, it's not tangible, it's not material or even tied to anything physical in this universe. So in order for you to say the concept and for me to comprehend the concept requires our minds have to be wired up the same way. We both have the ability to process that type of information. The Engineer wired us so that the espoused 2+2=4 can be cognitively, logically understood, and immutable.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-28308445402129811832009-01-10T07:21:00.000-06:002009-01-10T07:21:00.000-06:00Rho:" I have tons of evidence that the God of the ...Rho:<I>" I have tons of evidence that the God of the Bible exists."</I><BR/><BR/>Really? I suspect that there is a reason you left off the part about said "evidence" being credible and objective. Why is that?<BR/><BR/><I>"And I chose to follow one moral standard, yes, but it is objective, that is, it's true whether anyone believes it or not."</I><BR/><BR/>Do you knwow what the word "objective" means? <BR/><BR/>I understand that you prefer a "standard" of morality that you believe is true.<BR/><BR/>However, I think your "standard" is flawed. Deeply flawed, whether this biblegod exists in objective reality or not.<BR/><BR/>You seem to be trying to persuade me with a "might makes right" argument while at the same time failing to show any "might" or "right" in your assertion.TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32680791207404161122009-01-06T15:20:00.000-06:002009-01-06T15:20:00.000-06:00Ai Deng,So as to preserve the topic at hand in thi...Ai Deng,<BR/><BR/>So as to preserve the topic at hand in this post, <A HREF="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2009/01/little-on-ot-slavery.html" REL="nofollow">I answered you here</A>.<BR/>Cheers!Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-22729110076970296582009-01-06T14:53:00.000-06:002009-01-06T14:53:00.000-06:00Rhology,What is objectively moral Old Testament sl...Rhology,<BR/><BR/>What is objectively moral Old Testament slavery?<BR/><BR/>Do you think that it still applies today? I mean, could I own a slave and that would be good and acceptable in god's eyes?Ai Denghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141023502945802293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-22897989579925441592009-01-06T14:00:00.000-06:002009-01-06T14:00:00.000-06:00The Old Testament form is the only one that comes ...The Old Testament form is the only one that comes to mind offhand.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-81958632581776584692009-01-06T13:33:00.000-06:002009-01-06T13:33:00.000-06:00Rhology,In not outright condemning human slavery a...Rhology,<BR/><BR/>In not outright condemning human slavery as either moral or immoral, it seems you are leaving open the possibility that some forms of human slavery are objectively morally justified. Would you care to share some instances in which you feel the slavery of human beings is objectively morally justified?Ai Denghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141023502945802293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-2456053157081465722009-01-06T10:15:00.000-06:002009-01-06T10:15:00.000-06:00Ai Deng,Sorry, I wasn't specific enough in my ques...Ai Deng,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, I wasn't specific enough in my question. There have been many instances of human slavery in human history. To which institution(s) do you refer? <BR/><BR/>As for the grounds I use, I use the objective standard of the Bible, just as a preview. So you might pick out a given instance of slavery, and I'd analyse it in light of biblical moral teaching. <BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>RhologyRhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-2420188743606202142009-01-06T07:13:00.000-06:002009-01-06T07:13:00.000-06:00Rhology,I thought it was obvious, but I'm refering...Rhology,<BR/><BR/>I thought it was obvious, but I'm refering to slavery of human beings. Objectively moral or immoral? Grounds?Ai Denghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141023502945802293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-62966349191106299252009-01-06T01:29:00.000-06:002009-01-06T01:29:00.000-06:00Rhology said: Looks like this thread is dying down...<I>Rhology said: Looks like this thread is dying down, and my 10 points have come thru virtually unscathed. It's been an ugly few weeks for proponents of SSM.</I><BR/><BR/>You know, I have always thought there was a strong similarity between evangelical Christians and gangsters and I think I just found out what it is.<BR/><BR/>This whole discussion reminded me of a scene in “Guy and Dolls” when the big-time gangster Big Jule, after losing all his money, forces Sky Masterson to bankroll him in a craps games with Big Jule's own 'special' dice -- which are totally blank on all six sides. Big Jule, of course, explains to Sky Masterson not to worry because he “remembers where all the spots used to be”.<BR/><BR/>Rhology, you are 'Big Jule' if ever there was one.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14168969281371246061noreply@blogger.com