tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post4808221587878704056..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Dishonesty and HypocrisyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65340718804515098362011-08-26T09:15:39.498-05:002011-08-26T09:15:39.498-05:00"I wonder if some people for genetic reasons ..."I wonder if some people for genetic reasons really are incapable of following a logical argument...."<br /><br />Technically all of us are, as a default position. Evolution has not crafted a rational brain, which is why humans had to invent the idea of formal logic and rationalism and basically work to reprogram the default setting of the brain to correct for this.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410805080108311574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-48266645871535350172011-08-14T03:20:13.023-05:002011-08-14T03:20:13.023-05:00I wonder if some people for genetic reasons really...I wonder if some people for genetic reasons really are incapable of following a logical argument....<br /><br />I'm more inclined to think the guys a hypocrite since basically since 99 of religious people seem blind to the reality that Being a good honest person actually means caring about what is true.michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12888157943103381869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-61548120789137471812011-08-10T15:05:46.750-05:002011-08-10T15:05:46.750-05:00@Grantus Maximus
"Hey Mauricio - sounds like...@Grantus Maximus <br />"Hey Mauricio - sounds like 'Moises' originated from New York. That's a heck of a young earth assertion ;)"<br /><br />But that would be so cool, can you imagine him opening the Hudson river, that would be awesome XD<br /><br />@JT<br />"It's like the exact opposite of rational. "<br /><br />The annoying part of it, is that i was the fool for doubting something without good evidence, the guy didnt even consider the possibility of being wrong, is that old argument:<br /><br />"If you dont agree with me, you are dumb"....https://www.blogger.com/profile/05774854360116475084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-15308941821686805232011-08-09T16:06:02.623-05:002011-08-09T16:06:02.623-05:00Ex-Jehovah's Witness here. The more I read of ...Ex-Jehovah's Witness here. The more I read of this guy - starting with the "hellfire is from false religion" - the more I thought it was a JW. When he talked "about the Hebrew word chugh, translated circle", I was sure. <br /><br />It's a copypaste which I used as well back in my internet apologist days. When I did, I got my ass handed back to me on a silver platter, obviously, but that's not surprising. After all, it's a cheap copypaste and I didn't actually research it.<br /><br />This is what Caleb is doing as well. He probably has his CD-ROM with JW publications ready so he can copypaste more.<br /><br />It's not necessarily dishonest, mind you. Like me, he might have grown up as a JW and really doesn't know any better. The grass is green, the sun rises every morning, Jehovah is the one true god and the Watchtower His faithful and discreet slave, and feathers are light.<br /><br />Perhaps this has enlightened him and I hope for his sake that he will soon stop and think for a moment and question what he believes. JWs are taught to question all other religions but never to question their own. If that switch is thrown, what he finds may shock him.TagDazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15995419127000466866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46285187865481569562011-08-09T15:18:18.845-05:002011-08-09T15:18:18.845-05:00@Maricio
I think that's one of my favorite ap...@Maricio<br /><br />I think that's one of my favorite apologetics. It's an excellent example of bad evidence - due to not excluding other possibilities.<br /><br />And they're so ridiculous about it. Given possibilities A B C and D, they'll choose the most extraordinary, the most far fetched, the most obscenely unlikely and the most pathetically unsupported one of those given possibilities. <br /><br />It's like the exact opposite of rational.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-90279257762282675082011-08-08T19:26:19.675-05:002011-08-08T19:26:19.675-05:00If any of you wanted to read the JW article regard...If any of you wanted to read the JW article regarding atheists, you'll find it <a href="http://files.meetup.com/12920/Awake%20-%20Is%20Atheism%20on%20the%20March.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>NoNamesGivenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819713310248586964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68881558276739103092011-08-08T15:10:40.285-05:002011-08-08T15:10:40.285-05:00I actually discuss with a Jehovah's Witness of...I actually discuss with a Jehovah's Witness often, so I find the best thing to bring up is to reference the parts where biblical inerrancy works against them. Leviticus is a fun one: the topics we most often get tangled up on include the bible's encouragement of slavery, the objectification of women, and god-justified murders. The usual response is that Jesus nullified most Jewish doctrine, which further confuses the issue when you bring up the things they still believe in (they too oppose gay marriage).<br /><br />Another key point to note is that they use their own version of the bible, within which there are large differences from the other varieties of English translation. The most obvious being the word "Jehovah" sprinkled thoroughly in the New Testament where god's name was rarely (if ever) used. It's pretty obvious with a quick scan-through that their version is translated with bias to their beliefs.NoNamesGivenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819713310248586964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27679411366715013332011-08-08T06:15:01.293-05:002011-08-08T06:15:01.293-05:00Hey Mauricio - sounds like 'Moises' origin...Hey Mauricio - sounds like 'Moises' originated from New York. That's a heck of a young earth assertion ;)Grantus Maximushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13230918118817188349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-51971118264263263452011-08-06T23:03:04.443-05:002011-08-06T23:03:04.443-05:00Nice job at holding his feet to to the flame when ...Nice job at holding his feet to to the flame when he tried to change subjects Russell. Watching someone jump hastily into a game of Biblical Whac-A-Mole without acknowledging the flaws in their argument can be quite annoying.<br /><br />For that reason and others, these kinds of conversations can get muddied real fast. Textual conversation provides a nice archive, but can sometimes make it difficult to express certain concepts. It also difficult to snapshot a conversation like this between two individuals, package it up, and then broadcast it to an audience. You did that really well Tracie - well done.Soul Destroyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15983584402618472728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-2059936777725354562011-08-06T19:52:55.766-05:002011-08-06T19:52:55.766-05:00Funny, i had a discussion just a few days a go, li...Funny, i had a discussion just a few days a go, like that, when some believer was trying to prove that Moises, made a miracle, and apened the Red Sea, and all the evidence he had was, a area of the Red Sea, where was found, some whells, and very old bones of horses and humans.<br /><br />He was saying that, this evidencia, proved without doubt that a miracle had happen.<br /><br />But, when i pointed that a very simple explanation was at hand, like a sinking boat, carrying those wheels and the animais; then he called me a "blind man", that didnt want to see the true.<br /><br />I know all the people can have some hipocrisy, but i wonder:<br /><br />When it does start the hipocrisy, and when ends theyr ability to avaliate de evidence without appealing to a higher power....https://www.blogger.com/profile/05774854360116475084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-3412039977498411542011-08-06T11:14:27.076-05:002011-08-06T11:14:27.076-05:00I hope writing all that out was cathartic, Tracie....I hope writing all that out was cathartic, Tracie. Unfortunately, it seems hypocrisy and dishonesty are the tools of the trade for people like this. They can't function without these two vital tools in their ideological toolbelt. And the resulting constructions from such tools are very ugly indeed.Excreduloushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02910201049922531627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-41368620258859604902011-08-05T18:36:24.136-05:002011-08-05T18:36:24.136-05:00Oops, sorry, I meant 1989. But anyway, yeah, they&...Oops, sorry, I meant 1989. But anyway, yeah, they're only just now paying attention to the new atheist movement (they published a magazine article recently decrying atheists for not keeping their beliefs to themselves...I'll let that sink in for a few minutes), but a lot of their arguments are based on the presupposition that one already accepts the Bible as inerrant.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846531917173170897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-87808625448290839562011-08-05T18:34:07.420-05:002011-08-05T18:34:07.420-05:00"There isn't anything specific about athe..."There isn't anything specific about atheism in it."<br /><br />That's because the book was published in 1984, Atheism was completely off their radar.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846531917173170897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52296796307736419962011-08-05T12:23:11.226-05:002011-08-05T12:23:11.226-05:00For those of you who are interested, I was actuall...For those of you who are interested, I was actually able to find a pdf copy of Reasoning From the Scriptures on the interwebs. Here's the link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ph5ian.<br /><br />I came across this link via this forum thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/180697/1/Reasoning-From-the-Scriptures-are-they-working-on-an-update.<br /><br />I just finished downloading it. I'm looking forward to reading this. There isn't anything specific about atheism in it. = (<br /><br />Enjoy!ryan murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12501386392238400832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-49012370533406345482011-08-05T10:16:24.274-05:002011-08-05T10:16:24.274-05:00"I am even more amazed at it, since I married..."I am even more amazed at it, since I married into a brood of JWs as in-laws--so you'd think I'd recognize it by now."<br /><br />My condolences.<br /><br /><br />On inlaws not marriageInghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410805080108311574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-34000258309327837112011-08-05T09:15:35.267-05:002011-08-05T09:15:35.267-05:00On the note of false religion, though, I must than...On the note of false religion, though, I must thank you at AE. I had previously been one to try and learn as much as I could about a particular sect, thinking I could only argue against something I knew about. This makes perfect sense to someone used to dealing with rational people. <br /><br />As my sphere of acquaintances grew, I found this wasn't working. I spent many years struggling and mostly getting angry at the moving goal posts, the "Oh, I don't believe THAT foolishness" arguments.<br /><br />Now I just ask what it is they believe and make them defend that. It works for anything, not just religion, and is an actual, honest way to approach the discussion. If they have a valid point, I can consider it and change my views accordingly. I've done so for, say, politics, after it was clearly demonstrated I was wrong.<br /><br />And what I've found is humorous. When I ask "What, exactly, do you believe" to a true believer, they won't usually tell me. They start yelling that I'm taking them out of context, I'm being militant, or I'm being close minded, without ever giving me the chance to do any of those things. It's like a filter for conversations, where only the at least somewhat sane people make it through.Donovanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15675854407180876709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-67563444126097819392011-08-05T08:22:51.558-05:002011-08-05T08:22:51.558-05:00We're missing the point, as atheists, about th...We're missing the point, as atheists, about the sphere, circle, bauble connection. It's a shibboleth. People who ignore the most likely and reasonable definition are the same people who will ignore the most likely and reasonable explanations for the events of the universe: the True Christians. This is how Jesus knows who to save and who to torment. Sorry, I mean not save? Wait. Nuts. I thought I had it figured out.Donovanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15675854407180876709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52003881528992024072011-08-05T07:50:20.679-05:002011-08-05T07:50:20.679-05:00@BKHawkeye
The Hebrew word for a ball is "Ka...@BKHawkeye<br /><br />The Hebrew word for a ball is "Kadoor", while the word the bible uses "Chug" is generally accepted as circumference. In modern Hebrew "Kaddor Ha'aretz" - literally "The Earth\Land Ball" is what Earth as a planet is called.<br /><br />It's always amusing to hear Christians taking the old testament literally, what with the countless translations and revisions it passed through. Like the fact that the Hebrew word for "Radiant" was mistranslated as "Horned" leading generations of Renaissance artists to paint Moses with horns, similar mistakes are made in service of belief.<br /><br />If you are going to base your whole life on a silly old book, why satisfy yourself with a translation of a translation of a re-edit of a translation of a re-interpretation of a translation of a translation of a translation of the word of god? After all- The translation of the Hebrew verse known as "You shall have no other gods before me." Can just as well be translated as "You shall have no other gods on my face."Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11896998401370897319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-79261890227741564682011-08-05T07:24:09.294-05:002011-08-05T07:24:09.294-05:00I had a very entertaining -- maybe 2 hour long -- ...I had a very entertaining -- maybe 2 hour long -- discussion with a family of JWs (mother, father, and two brainwashed teens) who popped round for a bout of whitnessing, recently. They gave up after I offered them tea, since I was having such a good time. They said they'd come back later. Liars!<br /><br />Anyway, I thought it was hilarious at one point, when I was asking them about the trinity. Clearly, I didn't know JW beliefs as well as I should have at that point, because the reaction from the mother was "Oh no, we don't believe *that*!" It was the way she looked at me that was amusing. I'll try to sum it up in words. She looked at me with a look on her face that said:<br /><br />No *wonder* you don't believe in God, if you've been thinking *that* was what we believed. I'm so relieved we've got over that hurdle and can now get on with converting you properly. <br /><br />It was rather surreal, actually...<br /><br />I wish they would come back...Fleegmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05065130458666922299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-22041515699207543432011-08-04T22:48:54.299-05:002011-08-04T22:48:54.299-05:00One of my favorite quotes ever:
"No man ever...One of my favorite quotes ever:<br /><br />"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."<br /><br />-George Bernard ShawDaemon6https://www.blogger.com/profile/06379313038024703056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31742149398473528822011-08-04T22:12:25.910-05:002011-08-04T22:12:25.910-05:00Tracie that's exactly it. The 144,000 are a sp...Tracie that's exactly it. The 144,000 are a special group of Jehovah's Witnesses (which, incidentally includes several Biblical patriarchs the JWs have abducted into their faith, they actually call Abel the first Jehovah's Witness) who hope to rule over the paradise earth as "kings and priests." Basically, Jesus will be running things for the first 1,000 years. Then after that there will be another sort of Armageddon when God will let Satan out of the abyss he's been kept prisoner, and the people who were resurrected (the "unrighteous" who lived before JWs were around) get tested like the people who lived through the first Armageddon (the one that's coming any day now) were. After that, Jehovah (Jesus' father, JWs are unitarian and believe that Jesus is a separate and distinct being from Jehovah) takes over for the rest of eternity, and the 144,000 are like vassals or middlemen that transmit God's will from heaven to earth, somehow.<br /><br />I think it's pretty funny that the Jehovah's Witnesses big selling point is that you get to live in a world filled with them for eternity.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846531917173170897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-50445585421826255102011-08-04T19:17:22.578-05:002011-08-04T19:17:22.578-05:00David, assuming the guy is JW, they believe that t...David, assuming the guy is JW, they believe that the penalty for not being one of god's elect is that you cease to exist and are condemned to lost your immortal life. They believe that the saved will be restored to a new physical existence on a new Eden-like Earth, where tigers will be vegetarians...again. My little relative actually told me this--"Mommy told me I can pet tigers in Paradise."<br /><br />I'm sure Brian will know more. I think there's something further about the 144,000 elect?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-86691583441173181002011-08-04T19:13:50.951-05:002011-08-04T19:13:50.951-05:00John K - Like in the original story, I've had ...John K - Like in the original story, I've had this actually presented to me as a reason we KNOW God wrote the thing, not men! After all, men want their books to sell, so they can't make them boring, but God infuses every word with meaning and doesn't worry about sales, or something.<br /><br />On the original story: I would add that the problem of evil is a problem for atheists who happen to be positivists.Puzzledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12866127197554237039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-77818274210824498642011-08-04T16:34:52.381-05:002011-08-04T16:34:52.381-05:00"Another truth about the Bible is the teachin..."Another truth about the Bible is the teaching of the immortality of the soul, the bible clearly teaches that when we die we simply die."<br /><br />I don't get this. Either it's a misprint or I'm reading wrong, or ... well, what's the point of his religion? Without life after death, at least for some, then the deity that doesn't actively interfere with the physical realm is irrelevant.David McNerneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05607188814624253820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-82701371125001836242011-08-04T16:15:25.997-05:002011-08-04T16:15:25.997-05:00I got a few sound bites which will hopefully help ...I got a few sound bites which will hopefully help me in the future. Thanks Tracie!WildcardMojoJojohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009548733917589122noreply@blogger.com