tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post3710487789035943674..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Christianity and the allure of "cheap grace"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-48157993983198674492011-02-09T18:13:18.839-06:002011-02-09T18:13:18.839-06:00The Catholic Church brought us:
* the Trinity (LO...The Catholic Church brought us:<br /><br />* the Trinity (LOL!)<br />* the Bible<br /><br />The Protestants brought us:<br /><br />* "faith apart from corresponding actions"<br />* "grace" - the "force that manipulates dirt to do the divine work"<br /><br />I am hard pressed to say which inventions are worse... but since the Protestants replicate the sins of their fathers and add their own, they are clearly the "Biggest Losers!"WoundedEgohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10587474211232415755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-54965956246384010832009-12-16T00:26:26.585-06:002009-12-16T00:26:26.585-06:00Or as Tim Minchin puts it, it's about the idea...Or as Tim Minchin puts it, it's about the idea that god takes time out from systematically murdering African babies to find you a parking spot!! <br />My favourite example of this was when Serena Williams won the Australian Open a few years ago, she thanked god for helping her. Yeah, god helps Serena win a bloody tennis match ffs! Dunno what he had against the poor bitch who lost!Marellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13797979751977080727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-69880799014692729502009-12-06T23:54:24.547-06:002009-12-06T23:54:24.547-06:00My two cents on "cheap grace":
As an ex...My two cents on "cheap grace":<br /><br />As an ex-fundy myself, I remember a lot of this distinctly. There's a debate within fundagelical circles about that very subject. Have any of you heard of John MacArthur's books <i>The Gospel According To Jesus</i> or <i>Faith Works</i>? MacArthur, an evangelical minister, had as his thesis that anyone who is "saved" - i.e. accepted Jesus as savior, would inevitably produce evidence of that by how they live their lives. Lack of evidence or "good fruit" is to be a sign that the professing Christian isn't a Christian after all, and, barring "genuine repentance", that professing Christian would be in for a rude awakening come judgment day.<br /><br />Plenty of Christians with whom I was acquainted subscribed to this, including the pastor of the last church I attended regularly, a large SBC church in Denver.<br /><br />Of course, this doesn't make the message of Christianity any better. It's still an immoral system. But I did want to clarify that there are plenty of fundagelicals aren't "cheap grace" proponents.Kyle Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04569432667084294505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-80198342273366912482009-12-03T14:27:57.748-06:002009-12-03T14:27:57.748-06:00The best book for children who you want to get thi...The best book for children who you want to get thinking about this is "The Whipping Boy" where they have a child who is designated to be beaten when the prince misbehaves to punish the prince. I now really read that as a metaphor for that.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-55260319666191719542009-12-03T12:35:50.966-06:002009-12-03T12:35:50.966-06:00But it seems that, while his troll-fundie persona ...<i> But it seems that, while his troll-fundie persona does not exist, people got fooled because there are real people like "him". I find it hard to believe.</i><br /><br />Guillaume, believe it.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88245146066812004932009-12-03T12:00:47.707-06:002009-12-03T12:00:47.707-06:00Oh, and great post.Oh, and great post.Guillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-72563579855679004612009-12-03T12:00:47.708-06:002009-12-03T12:00:47.708-06:00I thought "Michael" was not real, as his...I thought "Michael" was not real, as his posts were too much of a caricature. I mean, not knowing what "erudite" means? Come on! But it seems that, while his troll-fundie persona does not exist, people got fooled because there are real people like "him". I find it hard to believe.<br /><br />Does that make any sense?Guillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12376749604845793465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-16849596865140968352009-12-03T11:18:22.607-06:002009-12-03T11:18:22.607-06:00There is a reason cheap grace becomes so appealing...There is a reason cheap grace becomes so appealing to the believer. Certain religions raise the bar so high, no human being can make it. <br /><br />In essence they must create the disease before they can sell you the cure. <br /><br />Once they've engendered a sense of hopelessness in you, they provide you the Nonsense Jesus. <br /><br />Nonsense Jesus satisfies God's law by suffering and dying for you. No justice system in the world would think it's just to punish an innocent man for someone else's crime. Why is God's law so much less just than our own meager systems?<br /><br />Side note: the quickest way to make almost everyone feel sinful is to demonize human sexuality. Since sexual feelings are a deep part of who we are, everyone is snared by this broad net. Way to go religion!Jeff the Gianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06630252810385382596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27214172542284546962009-12-03T09:44:34.146-06:002009-12-03T09:44:34.146-06:00Poe or a set up to evolve into a concern troll? B...Poe or a set up to evolve into a concern troll? BUM BUM BUUUUUUUM!<br /><br /><br />Fight the conspiracy!Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-85229475517180955492009-12-03T05:32:43.246-06:002009-12-03T05:32:43.246-06:00Will do. Gladly.
You guys rock.Will do. Gladly.<br /><br />You guys rock.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001183609446218599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-11467216781355974892009-12-03T01:39:22.626-06:002009-12-03T01:39:22.626-06:00O_o
Poed? By an expert!
Okay okay.
But that'...O_o<br /><br />Poed? By an expert!<br /><br />Okay okay.<br /><br />But that's the thing about being good at it. You were indistinguishable from the real thing. Literally. And just after deleting another dozen or so crazy rants from Dennis Markuze and having to enable moderation again...yeah, the timing probably wasn't the best.<br /><br />By all means, comment again. Just do it as yourself in future, please?Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-72659804486395442242009-12-03T01:24:52.618-06:002009-12-03T01:24:52.618-06:00I feel terribly guilty.
It's a rainy Thursday...I feel terribly guilty.<br /><br />It's a rainy Thursday in Melbourne, the office is empty, I was bored and I thought I'd try an initial stab at 'fake-trolling'. It's quite the thing, apparently.<br /><br />Except I did it on a blog I love, which, in retrospect, was a mistake. Straight to hell I would be heading if there was one.<br /><br />You fell for it though, didn't you? Hardly surprising. My half-assed aping is too realistic for its own good. Scary.<br /><br />Sorry to have bothered you. I'm an avid AE and NP follower and Martin I think you're brilliant.<br /><br />I will bother you no more.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001183609446218599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-42232582654307890642009-12-02T23:34:51.328-06:002009-12-02T23:34:51.328-06:00I don't know what erudite means
I figured tha...<i>I don't know what erudite means</i><br /><br />I figured that.<br /><br /><i>and I won't look it up even I know it's an insult.</i><br /><br />Actually, it isn't, which ought to tell you you shouldn't have napped your way through 8th grade English. I did, however, use the word sarcastically.<br /><br /><i>I ask you what came before evoltion? If not God what?</i><br /><br />If you'd like a primer on evolutionary biology, <a href="http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php" rel="nofollow">go here</a>. Otherwise, this isn't an evolution thread. Threadjacking is frowned upon here.<br /><br />Your concern about our hellbound state is noted, thanks. Now please, unless you have something pertinent to say in reply to the actual post above, by all means, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21722629204652785842009-12-02T23:20:56.735-06:002009-12-02T23:20:56.735-06:00I don't know what erudite means and I won'...I don't know what erudite means and I won't look it up even I know it's an insult. <br /><br />I ask you what came before evoltion? If not God what?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001183609446218599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30425799710004826702009-12-02T22:01:57.462-06:002009-12-02T22:01:57.462-06:00So terrible their English as well.So terrible their English as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-12451642001837503312009-12-02T20:47:38.039-06:002009-12-02T20:47:38.039-06:00So erudite in their reasoning, these believers.So erudite in their reasoning, these believers.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-28727603164265573982009-12-02T20:30:59.757-06:002009-12-02T20:30:59.757-06:00Your all going to Hell and I pity you. You can onl...Your all going to Hell and I pity you. You can only see what's in front of you. God hides himself from the proiud and arrogant thats why you haven't found Him yet.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04001183609446218599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31312175097952336802009-12-02T20:03:26.955-06:002009-12-02T20:03:26.955-06:00Okay, March Hare, this is veering toward major thr...Okay, March Hare, this is veering toward major thread drift, so future comments debating climate change (from anybody) will not make it through moderation. While it's fine to discuss climate change in the context of the actual post (as an example of a "culture war" issue that involves greater personal investment than simply bashing teh gayz), this is not the place for a greenies-vs-denialists cage-match.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-72187846972477515012009-12-02T19:45:48.138-06:002009-12-02T19:45:48.138-06:00Ignoring the climate change nonsense (yes climate ...Ignoring the climate change nonsense (yes climate is warming, blah de blah, but the science is broken! Anyone trying to influence public policy on the basis of broken science may as well try to stop stem cell research on the basis that they're all alive and have souls!).<br /><br />However, massive international trade and economic activity is the best and only way for Africa to exit the 3rd world existence most people experience.March Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13116034158087704885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-59797963706786298532009-12-02T19:35:14.267-06:002009-12-02T19:35:14.267-06:00FFS, no-one is denying (well, I'm not) that ch...FFS, no-one is denying (well, I'm not) that chucking millions of tons of CO2 will not change the climate and increase average temperatures.<br /><br />However, you feck with the numbers and the whole science has to start from scratch.<br /><br />Does no-one else think that the stupidity of climate change scientists have massively harmed the reputation of science so when evolutionists point out the masses of evidence for it the deniers have an easy 'science lies' card?March Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13116034158087704885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-68847339799895488842009-12-02T18:48:25.893-06:002009-12-02T18:48:25.893-06:00Oh for fuck's sake. (Deletes Markuze trollfest...Oh for fuck's sake. (Deletes Markuze trollfest.)<br /><br />Right everybody. Full time moderation back on until the men with butterfly nets catch up to Markuze again. Jesus.<br /><br />We now return you to your regularly scheduled comment thread.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-78779373492006109052009-12-02T18:24:36.950-06:002009-12-02T18:24:36.950-06:00Oh looksie, he's back!
The internet's ver...Oh looksie, he's back!<br /><br />The internet's very own 'I'm-not-concerned-about-atheism-but-I'll-spend-my-time-trolling-every-atheist-outlet-I-possibly-can' kind of guy.<br /><br />I saw you on alt.atheism a few days ago posting... exactly the same crap. Ur kut n paste skillz r 733tUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04419436380457178877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-78897280053030042192009-12-02T15:03:31.826-06:002009-12-02T15:03:31.826-06:00This reminds of the Dostoevsky line that theists o...This reminds of the Dostoevsky line that theists often throw out: "If God does not exist, then everything is permitted." To which we can reply, as your post nearly does, "If the God of evangelical Christianity exists, then everything is permitted." If salvation has nothing to do with works, only belief, if grace comes this easily, then why feel any need to do good? And why not do evil if that's what you want to do?Torgohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13251884387135147429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-43891158556617610472009-12-02T14:52:30.237-06:002009-12-02T14:52:30.237-06:00Also refer to this post on the climate change emai...Also refer to <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/" rel="nofollow">this post</a> on the climate change emails.<br /><br />At worst, the emails indicated use of inappropriate methodology by some individuals, not some major conspiracy to deceive.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-44824438728755219282009-12-02T14:48:51.063-06:002009-12-02T14:48:51.063-06:00The arrogance gets me more in terms of the "p...The arrogance gets me more in terms of the "personal experience" argument. How enormously and literally holier-than-thou can you get than saying God himself spoke directly to you, and not billions of others?Zurahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06325048684652466640noreply@blogger.com