tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post2041131718308190926..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: A few words about the Zeitgeist sequelsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger106125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-18688653327650417492011-07-06T16:56:14.848-05:002011-07-06T16:56:14.848-05:00Americans make up 3% of the world population and s...Americans make up 3% of the world population and spend 25% of it's resources. Why would they be unhappy with the way things are? What do they care if 1 billion people are starving (as in don't have ANYTHING to eat) as long as they can keep on living the American dream, fuck it if children are dieing of hunger. The system is fine, lets dismiss any alternative as impossible to implement. I don't think the Venus Project can supply an abundance of everything to everyone but I do think it's possible to provide everyone with equal decent lives. But of course that would suck wouldn't it? Screw them african kids, tough luck you were born in the wrong place so you're gonna die of diarrhea even thou it costs 2$ to treat. Now lets blow some gas driving around the neighborhood. After all, gas in America costs about half it does in other countries where an average salary is 200$.<br />In many ways the mind of a capitalist is very much like the mind of a religious person. It doesn't matter how much evil there is in the world because of their "religion", if it allows them to feel good they're just gonna stick their fingers in their ears and repeat "my religion is the only truth".Dani Muresanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03905300031189843454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27690088430271674642011-03-25T14:26:20.465-05:002011-03-25T14:26:20.465-05:00Cults don't annoy me because I understand why ...Cults don't annoy me because I understand why most people join them or are defensive about it. From an abstract point of view is very hard for me to differentiate between being defensive about a job, a sports club, a country or a religion.<br /><br />I've once belong to a cult where everyone had to were a tie, worship money and couldn't speak their minds to their supervisors, sounds familiar? <br /><br />If pseudo dumbness could lead to happiness then fear driven hunger wouldn't arise with every little reality check... <br /><br />"Apparently the scholastic world is just too primitive to understand his brilliant mind!!!!!"<br /><br />Did you just compare Peter Joseph to Galilee??!!!IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-20255674259265181292011-03-22T12:02:58.902-05:002011-03-22T12:02:58.902-05:00Very well put. Cults like this really annoy me. Th...Very well put. Cults like this really annoy me. The way they think the pathetic pseudo intellectual bullshit put together by an amateur is so much better then the opinions of people who have spent their lives researching an idea. In an interview Peter Joseph said one of the most common objections was "credentialism". Apparently the scholastic world is just too primitive to understand his brilliant mind!!!!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02823759534961904521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25372497303324378362011-03-08T00:14:45.592-06:002011-03-08T00:14:45.592-06:00"You also reduce incentive"
The incenti..."You also reduce incentive"<br /><br />The incentive to work is to have a good quality of life. The incentive to learn and explore science is to make the world a better place for other human beings and yourself. That is why Einstein and others did the things they did. Not for profit. If my incentive is to gain competitive advantage over others and dominate them, then humanity will never move forward. Cooperation is the only way I can see things will progress.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452569005444062667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71544458989765947702011-03-05T09:27:05.162-06:002011-03-05T09:27:05.162-06:00"You also reduce incentive."
I agree it..."You also reduce incentive."<br /><br />I agree it will reduce most of the incentive to be corrupt.<br /><br />As for the incentive to work, I don't work for money, I guess we need to ask the people that really like their jobs, why do they work...<br />We would also need to find a work that no human would do for free, that is necessary without scarcity or could not be replaced by a machine.<br /><br />The Scientific Method (SM) is not compatible with generalizations...<br /><br />"film ignores human nature itself" - the film talks about the myth of a certain concept of human nature, by addressing a current misconception which is this idea that you can understand the "nature" of "something" outside the understanding of it's environment. <br /><br />" ignores, as you said, all those pesty little details reality offers" <br /><br />How many pesty little details about TVs where known before the first TV was put into practice?<br /><br />If your only critic, is to point out a characteristic common to all innovation, which was the main reason we invented and thrust the SM in the first place, what is your point?<br /><br />peace,<br /><br />Ca FerrIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-77380424880837832232011-03-05T08:29:49.131-06:002011-03-05T08:29:49.131-06:00Hi!
I saw ZMF and it covers the theories of ressou...Hi!<br />I saw ZMF and it covers the theories of ressource management on a very superficial and theoretical level. The film ignores human nature itself(varying needs&skills eg.) and it ignores, as you said, all those pesty little details reality offers, where many "minor" details together form a big problem :)<br />greetings from AustriaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733028850632967803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-70810083279678693802011-03-02T10:49:10.483-06:002011-03-02T10:49:10.483-06:00"If you remove the waste that comes with owne..."If you remove the waste that comes with ownership and competition you reduce scarcity as well."<br /><br />You also reduce incentive.Inghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-66366930391296071322011-02-24T23:22:11.792-06:002011-02-24T23:22:11.792-06:00"Right... criticisms of RBE are fear based, b..."Right... criticisms of RBE are fear based, but "HUMAN SELF-DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE!!!!!" is just calm, reasoned argument. Face it, buddy, at this point you're just a guy on a street corner wearing a sandwich board with "The End Is Nigh" on it, shouting at passersby that labels will destroy us all. I can't blame Mamba for responding in kind." <br /><br />This is not how people resonably argue things. It's an attempt yet again to paint an opposing viewpoint as "crazy."<br /><br />For example:<br /><br />When on the radio show it is argued that "eating peas on your plate will feed people in Africa" and somehow equating that to the venus project is reasonable as an argument. <br /><br />WTF<br /><br />That is not what the venus project is proposing and you know it. <br /><br />It's completely misrepresenting what they are saying.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452569005444062667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7171702888750790792011-02-24T23:03:23.530-06:002011-02-24T23:03:23.530-06:00"-Wow. I would first direct you towards a dic..."-Wow. I would first direct you towards a dictionary to look up the word "Religion". Because you don't seem to understand the word and think that self-interest,competition, and supply and demand are somehow religious?? You aren't making much sense here buddy, your little analogies aren't helping you out much. lol"<br /><br />It is religious in the sense that it is taken for granite. People don't question it. People think that the current economic system provides for human need. It doesn't. Thats the point. <br /><br />"-And how do you know that a little test city would be representative of an entire country? The whole world? But hey if they want to try that, then I guess it's worth a try I suppose. If it ever happens let me know how it works out.;)"<br /><br />Well I guess this is kind of the point. The Non-Prophets radio show spent a good 20 or 30 minutes of their show trashing the idea of a rbe. They didn't say what you just said here. If they said that then fine; but they instead without even watching the fuking movie proceeded to trash it... using objections that are easily dealt with in the actual film. It's just odd to me that the response was so arrogant and egotistical. <br /><br />"-Yeah I agree we don't live in a perfect world......Our economic system has flaws/corruption...Thanks for that irrelevant bit of information.(Not that it's not important to address the problems in the world, just that it has nothing to do with whether or not your idea will work.)"<br /><br />I think it's a little funny that you can simply shrug off gaping flaws in our current economic system by simply saying that "things aren't perfect." The point I'm making is that our current economic system mind warps people into believing that they actually need to buy ridiculous things like 10 million dollar mansions. Do you think that that is an acceptable by product of our system? Secondly, Do you think that founding fathers of the United States knew that democracy would work? Isn't that how you come up with ways of organizing social structure? You try it and see if it works? So I guess your right when you say "You don't know if it will work or not" I get your point and your right! :) I just hope we get a chance to try it before the current system we live in implodes.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452569005444062667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-9603784644783886362011-02-24T13:36:28.332-06:002011-02-24T13:36:28.332-06:00kazim I can't believe after all I've writt...kazim I can't believe after all I've written you still there, mate. lol<br /><br />I must have already addressed each of those issues a least 10 times.<br />Have you read anything I wrote? <br /><br />Here is a resume:<br /><br />The only thing that is keeping us from moving to renewable energies is the profit motive. Renewable - Sustainable.<br /><br />If you remove the waste that comes with ownership and competition you reduce scarcity as well.<br /><br />Now my question: can you please explain to me how the current economic model was tested before it was implemented?<br /><br />ThanksIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-6122392190774654892011-02-24T13:08:37.541-06:002011-02-24T13:08:37.541-06:00Hang on there. Just a few minutes ago you were sa...Hang on there. Just a few minutes ago you were saying that RBEs would work because resources are not truly scarce, only <i>perceived</i> as scarce. Since your argument is that we are using up scarce resources faster than we have, and since, under RBE, the artificial restriction of resource usage that is implied by capital will go away, how is RBE not making things work? You just sneered at Mamba's claim that an RBE would result in more deaths, dismissing it as religious fear-mongering, refusing to even think about it, and you're still making the argument that EVERY SINGLE THING we might do BESIDES switching to your fantasy economics league will kill us because of mismanaged resources.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52374471817980474472011-02-24T12:59:49.155-06:002011-02-24T12:59:49.155-06:00Kazim in your infinite wisdom, can you please expl...Kazim in your infinite wisdom, can you please explain to me how consuming 1.5 planets worth of resources, and counting, per year, will not lead to its destruction? lol <br />In other words generating 100 and spending 150, using what the cave men saved, is it sustainable or are we going to have a bailout from Mars? lolIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-36310649508891944132011-02-24T12:52:07.583-06:002011-02-24T12:52:07.583-06:00Can you just reply to this question?
Can you plea...Can you just reply to this question?<br /><br />Can you please give an example of something, with a goal of improving people's life's.<br /><br />That was able to be proven as working without being tested in practice first? <br />Or as you call it: "without affecting people"? <br />Or without being initially perceived as threatening by anyone? lol<br /><br />Better yet, can you please explain to me how the current economic model was tested before it was implemented? lol<br /><br />You see where the intellectual dishonesty is? You want people to fear something we have been doing for centuries. Like it's something "Evil", when is simply trying new things lol. <br /><br />When the worst thing that can happens if a new city or business fails is that we learn a bit more, and the best is, that we get all to be happy lolIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-18941119230102622162011-02-24T12:38:25.438-06:002011-02-24T12:38:25.438-06:00Right... criticisms of RBE are fear based, but &qu...Right... criticisms of RBE are fear based, but "HUMAN SELF-DESTRUCTION IS INEVITABLE!!!!!" is just calm, reasoned argument. Face it, buddy, at this point you're just a guy on a street corner wearing a sandwich board with "The End Is Nigh" on it, shouting at passersby that labels will destroy us all. I can't blame Mamba for responding in kind.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324968314168283095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-63438868560463546982011-02-24T12:34:12.898-06:002011-02-24T12:34:12.898-06:00How will try a RBE might kill anyone? lol You see ...How will try a RBE might kill anyone? lol You see the fear based arguments used by religions? lolIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-55876332801317479032011-02-24T12:28:40.540-06:002011-02-24T12:28:40.540-06:00"OK let me just address this point which just..."OK let me just address this point which just sounds like escapism to me."<br /><br />-LOL WOW. It's not escapism, as you so put it, it's addressing the point..Then you go off on your little emotional tirade of pointing out flaws in our economy again and saying, "what if the RBE was realistic and worked? Oh it doesn't matter because know one would care.".....Now we are just playing the "what if" game. Then off with the dishonest accusations again like you think it makes your position more justified. You just reverted back to your old defense mechanisms that I thought we had already went through?<br /><br />"Yes it may save our life's, but something worse might happen, we may loose our jobs" lol<br /><br />-This isn't even my quote. So you're making up false quotes now? Yes. You are endangering people's lives if you try to implement a system that isn't proven to work. Period. Saying, "oh but they will die anyway", or "It's for the good of humankind".....doesn't justify your idea and is all emotional pleas and bold assertions. Your idea's are no more than wishful thinking buddy.(that's a religious practice) You have good intentions, but you aren't going to save the world with your unproven/unrealistic emotional laced ideas. <br /><br />-Also making bold assertions of there being no scarce resources is so naive. Oh look at all the waste humans produce.....Yeah.....How does this make the idea of a RBE more plausible??????? If you are truly concerned for the welfare of humanity, then donate money to charity and foundations, donate to researching better technology, whatever...You keep thinking sitting on your computer and arguing on blogs with your emotional rhetoric/wishful thinking and irrelevant facts is going to solve something....I'm sorry buddy. But we have been over all this and I don't feel like going around in circles with you. If you think that your idea's aren't going to work/be taken seriously by anybody....Then stop wasting your time with them. And try and improve our current state as much as you can.Mamba24https://www.blogger.com/profile/05946274556360577420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7845167565242080002011-02-24T11:41:07.186-06:002011-02-24T11:41:07.186-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-74390849238435427512011-02-24T11:38:33.290-06:002011-02-24T11:38:33.290-06:00People only value and use too much of most of the ...People only value and use too much of most of the resources we have today because they are perceived as scarce, and this includes most eating disorders. <br /><br />If some lye would be propagated on the media tomorrow saying that clean oxygen is running out. You would see people inventing machines to collect it from the air, and then accumulating stocks of it hoping to make more profit in the future.<br />People will steal it, wars would start to control countries with more, people would destroy each other’s reserves in order to get what is left. People would get poisoned for trying to breath pure oxygen and new disorders, we never had before would develop... Sounds familiar? Lol<br /><br />And the most important conclusion is that even if that started as lye initially it would become true. And would probably, make someone very rich, right before we all die. Lol<br /><br />If the only problems we all had were real problems, that means problems common to all humans, those would be the only things that would motivate us, like finding the cure for cancer for example.IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-4515232287984177492011-02-24T11:13:38.111-06:002011-02-24T11:13:38.111-06:00"Wow. I would first direct you towards a dict..."Wow. I would first direct you towards a dictionary to look up the word "Religion". Because you don't seem to understand the word and think that self-interest, competition, and supply and demand are somehow religious?? You aren't making much sense here buddy, your little analogies aren't helping you out much. lol"<br /><br />Mamba common you can do better than that :) He said that the BELIEVE that self-interest, competition, and supply and demand will magically provide for all humans, if you only comply, is very similar to religious believes. He was comparing the “believes”, not the words in the middle of a sentence. lol<br /><br />That is actually the argument that is being used to convince the slaves. "Don't worry if you are a slave now because one day you might have your own slaves" <br />The inconsistency… if you are against slavery that shouldn't change regardless if you are a slave or a slave owner. <br /><br />The current economic games are going to lead to human self-destruction, which is not just a minor inconvenience that we can just leave to the "experts". If the "experts" really had the will or even the power to solve it, it would be solved by now.<br /><br />Another incoherent argument is that, since you are an atheist you don't have to have an opinion about the economy, well the economy is going to kill all humans, you are not human? You should at least explain if you think that is not truth and why.<br /><br />I didn't make the call to put an atheist talking about the economy; I am just making comments to the original post. If Kazim has no clue how the economy works he should not be making comments about the solutions for economic problems.<br />It's like commenting algebra without knowing numbers. Economy means managing resources by the way, just to make it clear.<br /><br />That can be dangerous because his opinion might delay some of the alternatives, and to be honest we are running out of time.<br /><br />I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind writing about something that according to you has nothing to do with atheism:<br /><br />1 - The first hypotheses, is that he has more information than me, and I'm not seeing things right, well not wanting to watch the films, doesn't really help him on that.<br /><br />2 - Maybe the atheist experience is making good money and the thinks equality will mean he will have less. This is a point of view I would understand.<br /><br />3- Or is some kind or ego or pride issue which I would also understand.<br /><br />But that is what is wrong with the world, people choose labels instead of trying to understand other people's motivations and end up doing exactly the same they criticise.<br /><br />What Z proposes is equality in the sense that everyone is equally free, meaning that the poorest of us could have access to more usage of resources than the richest today, it they wanted. That can be the real benefit of using technology without the waste of profit, ownership, competition wars, prisons and other idiocies.<br /><br />Equality is the only way to have everyone fighting for the same goal. The worst enemy of a Lion is not other Lions, the worst enemy of a Lion is scarcity of food and water, so let’s solve that together.<br /><br />You think Bill Gates doesn't use more stuff cause he can't afford it? He doesn't use it cause he doesn't need it?IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-49355163414884509102011-02-24T08:22:26.291-06:002011-02-24T08:22:26.291-06:00And please don't give me that crap about human...And please don't give me that crap about human nature and laziness, because children do not get paid to paint or to ask questions and try to understand the world, money does not motivate people, problem solving does.<br /><br />And don't tell me that to reduce scarcity is impossible, because while waste exists is always possible to reduce scarcity more, and we have to piles of it the size of Texas in the Oceans...<br /><br />It is more than proven that money only motivates people when they are just doing repetitive or sales or manual boring labour that could either be done by machines or not be necessary at all.<br /><br />And that is why we should stop ignoring the impact that technology can really have, if we let it, in all of humanity's well-being.<br /><br />Can you please give an example of something with a goal of improving people's life's, you can prove works without testing it? Or as you call it: "without affecting people"? <br />I mean I think it is a bit dishonest to only accept as a valid argument something that you know to be impossible.<br /><br />Later,<br /><br />Ca FerrIfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-13893131890771206312011-02-24T08:22:05.155-06:002011-02-24T08:22:05.155-06:00"Okay great buddy, what's all this have t..."Okay great buddy, what's all this have to do with whether or not a RBE is plausible/realistic?"<br /><br />OK let me just address this point which just sounds like escapism to me.<br /><br />Imagine if I prove to you and the rest of the world right now that a RBE is not only possible but the best way to benefit all humans according to current knowledge. what do you think will happen?<br /><br />Let me answer that for you: NOTHING.<br /><br />And that is the real issue here, that is what I am trying to address. You want me to prove something to you when you know perfectly well that that won't make any difference in the current environment. That is just dishonest. <br /><br />Currently if something threatens enough people's economic interests it won't get done, even if that something is trying to save their life's.<br /><br />And that is blocking a lot of possible solutions without even giving it a fair chance.<br />I want to prove it, but if people don't want something to be right, they will do everything to keep it from being tested.<br /><br />Also, to prove that something works or not, is irrelevant when you live in a system when it doesn't matter if something works, it matter if you can make a profit with it (and usually if you really solve a problem the profit is gone) that is why it is important to address that first. <br /><br />So the current blocks of the current economy are important, otherwise you will won't even be able to tell the difference between, something that really doesn't work and something that everyone you have been conditioned to thrust, tells you won't work.<br /><br />To build the first city, which is a good way to start testing some of these concepts, would affect people's life's? lol really? The current system will kill us all, is there any worse affects than that? lol<br /><br />"Yes it may save our life's, but something worse might happen, we may loose our jobs" lol<br /><br />You don't think that humans have forgotten what we started fighting for, in the first place?<br /><br />This believe that my job is more important than long term human survival doesn't sound a bit religious to you? we are all walking suicidal bombers... lol<br /><br />Can you please give an example of one, just one, innovation that was not perceived as threatening by anyone, when it was first proposed?<br /><br />That doesn't mean that all innovations are always good but it means that every time you used fear based arguments not to enable something to be tested, is always bad.<br /><br />OK so you and me, can probably come up with a business that instead of rewarding ownership will reward problem solving, like a transitional stage for money. Surely you will not be afraid that creating a business will "affect" people's life's... :)<br /><br />So a business that will generate no profit will have no stock holders, and as a worker if you manage to contribute to your replacement by a machine you can go home, and still get the same pay less the costs of running that machine.<br /><br />The products that this business will make will not break, they will be fully upgradable and compatible, so there is no need to trash it ever, and no need for any other product on that market, problem solved ;)<br /><br />Everyone will have access to how the product is made and can make suggestions to improve it, soon there will be no profit in this market and the business can move on to solving the next problem.<br /><br />People won't fear it because everyone's dream is to get paid, with no work, so you can still contribute to society, but this time you are REALLY free to choose what you want to do. And the more problems you solve the more payments you can accumulate...<br /><br />When you get replaced by a machine the same food exists in the world and machines don't eat. So I can't see why can't I eat the same food without a job? (I do have a job by the way, but what motivates is the problems I solve everyday, not the money I make) <br /><br />If unemployment was irrelevant, do you think people would be so afraid of innovation and really solving problems?IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-50350196954948971372011-02-24T05:50:20.576-06:002011-02-24T05:50:20.576-06:00There is something I don't understand Mamba :)...There is something I don't understand Mamba :) the economy paradigms are not just imperfect, they will lead to human self destruction.<br />That is not just a minor inconvenience, that we can leave to the experts... lol<br />If the "expert" would have the will to solve it, it would be solved by now. :) <br /><br />To think that shooting fish in a pond, which is basically what criticizing religions is, is a good use of your time, it's fine. If you want to live your life without caring about what happens to your grandchildren, I told you already, I understand that point of view. <br /><br />But you can't say that atheists have no view about the economy, because you can't talk about Zeitgeist without a view on the economy, that is what is all about. I was not the one that decided to do this post, I just want to understand what is the motivation behind addressing ideas you are clueless about is. <br /><br />If you tell me that the atheist experience is making good money now, and that they see equality as everyone having less, or if is some kind of ego issue, I will also understand that point of view.<br /><br />What Z defends is that equality is the only way we will all contribute to eradicate scarcity, and that means that the poorest of us can have access to more amount of usage than the current wealthiest of us, if we just stop fighting each other wasting the planet and all its resources in wars, prisons, ownership, profit, competition and other idiocies.<br /><br />The worst enemy of a Lion are not other Lions the worst enemy of a Lion is scarcity of food and water. <br /><br />The problem is that some of the misinformation propagated here, will just help in delaying the solution for very important problems and to be honest, we are running out of time.<br /><br />"Wow. I would first direct you towards a dictionary to look up the word "Religion". Because you don't seem to understand the word and think that self-interest,competition, and supply and demand are somehow religious?? You aren't making much sense here buddy, your little analogies aren't helping you out much. lol"<br /><br />That is just not honest now :) he said that economists believe that self-interest,competition, and supply and demand will magically provide for everyone... lol<br />It is the BELIEVE he is addressing, there is no point in cherry piking some words in the middle of a sentence. lol<br /><br />That is the idea that is being sold to the slaves everyday.<br /><br />In other words, don't worry if you are a slave now, because one day you might have your own slaves lol<br /><br />Well if you are against slavery that opinion can't change regardless if you are a slave or a slave owner. <br /><br />That is what is wrong with the world, people use labels as a way to stop trying to understand other peoples motivations, so they end up doing the same they criticize.IfNotNowWhenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657965409147474889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30196019918374603142011-02-24T01:22:34.502-06:002011-02-24T01:22:34.502-06:00"So the invisible hand of the market accordin..."So the invisible hand of the market according to Smith is not religious? If you think that self-interest, competition, and supply and demand magically coming together to provide for us all is somehow not religious then what is?"<br /><br />-Wow. I would first direct you towards a dictionary to look up the word "Religion". Because you don't seem to understand the word and think that self-interest,competition, and supply and demand are somehow religious?? You aren't making much sense here buddy, your little analogies aren't helping you out much. lol<br /><br /><br />"Our economic system does not put human need at the top of the list my friend. It puts profit there. Thats why in America for example you have some people that have a billion dollars and others that have nothing. It's never truly worked. It's a system that accounts for the people at the top."<br /><br />-Okay great buddy, what's all this have to do with whether or not a RBE is plausible/realistic? Pointing out flaws in our current economic system doesn't buy you brownie points, and is totally irrelevant to this thread. As I have already pointed out numerous times no one here is claiming that we live in a perfect system. So cut the emotional rhetoric and get to the point.<br /><br />"I might also add that the venus project does advocate building a test city to see how it might all work. This isn't like testing gravity by dropping an apple. In order to change societal structure you have to go forward step by step."<br /><br />-And how do you know that a little test city would be representative of an entire country? The whole world? But hey if they want to try that, then I guess it's worth a try I suppose. If it ever happens let me know how it works out.;)<br /><br />"It does no good to put people who would waste money buying gold "grills" in an rbe enviornment. They wouldn't understand it. You have to change peoples values. Our current system encourages people to buy things that they don't need and its destructive to the enviornment and human beings overall. You have to admit that."<br /><br />-Yeah I agree we don't live in a perfect world......Our economic system has flaws/corruption...Thanks for that irrelevant bit of information.(Not that it's not important to address the problems in the world, just that it has nothing to do with whether or not your idea will work.)Mamba24https://www.blogger.com/profile/05946274556360577420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-16657803177840196662011-02-24T00:59:53.874-06:002011-02-24T00:59:53.874-06:00Keepitwolfson said.."I suggest you learn to r...Keepitwolfson said.."I suggest you learn to read. I have not once defended a resource based economy or have even refereed to one." As I've stated, I think VP is a fallacy, but that doesn't mean every critique of the current social economic state is wrong."<br /><br />-Wow talk about straw-man, who the hell said that no one could critique our current economic state? lol I mean I don't think anyone here is advocating that our economy is perfect. If you didn't notice buddy this thread is about the Venus project..That's what we are talking about. (So apparently I can read) We aren't here to talk about what flaws we can find in our current state, it's about whether or not this idea of a "RBE" is a realistic goal, whether it would work. So your little emotional rant is quite unnecessary and irrelevant to this discussion.<br /><br />Keepitwolfson said.."A lot of the ideas put forth in the movie are not even Josephs to begin with and just because a certain topic it is brought up in the movie doesn't make it synonymous with VP."<br /><br />-Yeah we are aware that the VP isn't even Joseph's idea, thanks for pointing that out. <br /><br />Keepitwolfson said.."That is my biggest problem with this "review" in general. I'm not posturing or trying to not be associated with anything. You can make your little arrogant hypocritical statements but just realize you are doing the exact same thing especially when it comes to not responding to something and referring back to whatever seems to be the status quo belief."<br /><br />-Basically you didn't bring up anything relevant to this thread. So far out of this post all you seem to have done is...<br /><br />A.) Accuse me of not being able to read. (That's debatable but lets move on. ;)<br />B.) Accused us of not allowing criticism of our economic system. (Not true)<br />C.) Pointed out that the ideas in the VP aren't Peter Joseph's. (We agree)<br />D.) Accused us of making arrogant hypocritical statements. (Debatable once again, maybe you could point out these statements of ours, or Kazim's if you are referring to the main blog post.)<br />E.) Accused us of not responding to something.(What is this "something"? lol)<br />F.) And finally accused us of referring to the status quo belief.(The status quo belief being.....what? lol Exercising a little skepticism towards a unrealistic idea that you yourself apparently agree with?)-"I have not once defended a resource based economy or have even refereed to one. As I've stated, I think VP is a fallacy.".....-Who's being hypocritical buddy?Mamba24https://www.blogger.com/profile/05946274556360577420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-49639387795384895202011-02-24T00:47:27.455-06:002011-02-24T00:47:27.455-06:00Basically what you should be saying is that you wa...Basically what you should be saying is that you want to replace our current religion (capitalism), with your own new religion (RBE). If anything, it's the people proposing the 'RBE' that would need to resort to faith. (Since there isn't any evidence it would actually work) <br /><br />So the invisible hand of the market according to Smith is not religious? If you think that self-interest, competition, and supply and demand magically coming together to provide for us all is somehow not religious then what is? Our economic system does not put human need at the top of the list my friend. It puts profit there. Thats why in America for example you have some people that have a billion dollars and others that have nothing. It's never truly worked. It's a system that accounts for the people at the top. I might also add that the venus project does advocate building a test city to see how it might all work. This isn't like testing gravity by dropping an apple. In order to change societal structure you have to go forward step by step. It does no good to put people who would waste money buying gold "grills" in an rbe enviornment. They wouldn't understand it. You have to change peoples values. Our current system encourages people to buy things that they don't need and its destructive to the enviornment and human beings overall. You have to admit that.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452569005444062667noreply@blogger.com