tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post1676085911321048141..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Special rights for creationist morons!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-28051428907675206242009-03-29T09:07:00.000-05:002009-03-29T09:07:00.000-05:00The bill requires that an organization "offers bon...The bill requires that an organization "offers bona fide degree programs that require students to complete substantive course work in order to receive a degree from the institution"<BR/>I guess the ACA doesn't qualify since we don't exactly teach any courses. We can't start giving out degrees until we decide to teach at least one course. How about the Irrationality of religion.Voldemort13https://www.blogger.com/profile/00145909649027905301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-42789214177767586862009-03-22T14:03:00.000-05:002009-03-22T14:03:00.000-05:00Oh, and preemptively:'He requires that we place ou...Oh, and preemptively:<BR/><BR/>'He requires that we place our belief in Jesus and the Lord in order to attain this forgiveness.'<BR/><BR/>Is equivalent to:<BR/><BR/>'I will forgive you for calling me names, but only if you say you're really really sorry and promise to spend your life serving me.'<BR/><BR/>If I were to worship something, it would be superior to myself (obviously)<BR/><BR/>If the Christian god existed, he's not as good at this forgiveness thing as he should be. Ergo I wouldn't worship him.-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07423776253697799481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-65303536345725416102009-03-22T14:00:00.000-05:002009-03-22T14:00:00.000-05:00So you're essentially saying that an all-powerful ...So you're essentially saying that an all-powerful all-knowing all-loving creator couldn't get forgiveness, a basic human construct that all of us practice, through his all-knowing all-powerful all-loving head?<BR/><BR/>And you ask us why we won't worship him?-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07423776253697799481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-5424704288301520932009-03-22T11:03:00.000-05:002009-03-22T11:03:00.000-05:00What is so immoral about hell?When people engage i...What is so immoral about hell?<BR/>When people engage in sinful activities the bring dishonor to God their creator.<BR/>So God in reciprocation sends them to a place of shame and dishonor in the afterlife.How is it immoral? .It is simply reciprocation.MrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-84326949317199196682009-03-21T20:18:00.000-05:002009-03-21T20:18:00.000-05:00Cipher, it's not the comment policy here to ban th...Cipher, it's not the comment policy here to ban theist commenters just for being obtuse dimwits. Generally, if they descend to being nothing more than pointlessly offensive, like Rhology, then we'll kick 'em to the curb. But I personally enjoy mixing it up with clueless believers, and when it gets tiresome, I just move on. If you get fed up talking to these people, just do the same.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, "Mr. FreeThinker," yes, the Doctrine of Hell is not only bad, it singlehandedly disqualifies Christianity from consideration as a moral belief system, full stop.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25344624654556270192009-03-21T09:26:00.000-05:002009-03-21T09:26:00.000-05:00Please - it's still eternal vengeance meted out by...Please - it's still eternal vengeance meted out by your deranged god who seems to require the "honor" with which they are obsessed in that article. <BR/><BR/>Fundies are always telling me how willing they are to change their positions; the only change I've ever seen any of you make is from one flavor of fundamentalism to another. I've never once seen an exception. Not once.<BR/><BR/>That's it for me; I'm out. I'm unsubscribing from these recent threads. I've spent the past few days reading the idiocy spewed out by these characters, particularly that pathetic imbecile Andrew, whom most of you have been treating as though he had something of value to say. I come to here to get away from these people, and I keep waiting for the rest of you to hand these guys their hats.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-24631687617719513512009-03-21T09:04:00.000-05:002009-03-21T09:04:00.000-05:00You people are addicts; the only factor motivating...<I>You people are addicts; the only factor motivating you is to keep believing at all costs, even at the cost of the eternal damnation of the entirety of humanity.</I><BR/><BR/>You never met me and you know all my psychological reasons for believing. If I said you were being presumptious it would be an understatement<BR/><BR/><I>There is absolutely NOTHING that Hitchens or anyone else could say that would cause you even to consider the possibility that you might be wrong.</I> <BR/>This is wrong. I have changed my position on issues before and been wrong. However I do not find people like Hitchens who use emotional appeals and logical fallacies convincing.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>You cling to the most horrific belief system ever devised because it allows you to delude yourselves into feeling "loved" by God, and offers you the assurance of personal continuity after death. The fact that that assurance comes at the cost of unimaginable suffering for the majority of humanity for all of eternity doesn't faze you one iota.</I><BR/>So you are saying the doctrine of hell is bad? Just to clarify my position is that hell is a place of shame for those who sin, not a place of physical torture<BR/><BR/>http://www.tektonics.org/uz/2muchshame.html<BR/><BR/>"Free Thinker". Please - if you ever did have a "free" thought you wouldn't know what to do with it.MrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-13573761275590598452009-03-21T07:46:00.000-05:002009-03-21T07:46:00.000-05:00I face-palmed every time he committed the naturali...<I>I face-palmed every time he committed the naturalistic fallacy.</I><BR/><BR/>You people are addicts; the only factor motivating you is to keep believing at all costs, even at the cost of the eternal damnation of the entirety of humanity.<BR/><BR/>There is absolutely NOTHING that Hitchens or anyone else could say that would cause you even to consider the possibility that you might be wrong. You cling to the most horrific belief system ever devised because it allows you to delude yourselves into feeling "loved" by God, and offers you the assurance of personal continuity after death. The fact that that assurance comes at the cost of unimaginable suffering for the majority of humanity for all of eternity doesn't faze you one iota.<BR/><BR/>"Free Thinker". Please - if you ever did have a "free" thought you wouldn't know what to do with it.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-35093293320793051032009-03-21T07:26:00.000-05:002009-03-21T07:26:00.000-05:00"On the subject of "academic degrees", I went and ..."On the subject of "academic degrees", I went and saw a guy named Frank Turek speak near me a month or so ago."<BR/>Ah Frank Turek. I saw a video of him debating Hitchens.<BR/>He's not a logician like W.L. Craig or Richard Swinburne but his logic certainly ran circles around Hitchens. Hitchens would use world like vile,evil and totalitarian to desribe religion .It was obvious for all his insults and emotional appeals he could not address the logic of Turek's arguments. I remember when couldn't refute Turek's argument from design he resorted to "Oh this is such a horrible universe, we are all going to die a heat death".Nice use of emotional appeal Hitchens.<BR/>I face-palmed every time he committed the naturalistic fallacy.<BR/>It was also annoying when he made appeals to ignorance ("we just don't know, but don't believe Frank Turek") and saying stuff like "that is just a deist God".MrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29177518203185271492009-03-19T08:07:00.000-05:002009-03-19T08:07:00.000-05:00Never mind that Paul could have just been pulling ...<I>Never mind that Paul could have just been pulling the number out of his ass.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, but he would never have done that! His conversion experience <I>transformed</I> him!Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-86632277118994899402009-03-19T08:03:00.000-05:002009-03-19T08:03:00.000-05:00"4000 scientists don't believe in the theory of ev...<EM>"4000 scientists don't believe in the theory of evolution" or some garbage like that.</EM><BR/><BR/>That's like Paul's claim in the NT that over 500 people saw the risen Christ. Christians today will point to that and say "You see, there were EYEWITNESSES!" Never mind that Paul could have just been pulling the number out of his ass.Tommykeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27356488693385479032009-03-18T09:10:00.000-05:002009-03-18T09:10:00.000-05:00But still....this woman in a large suburb of Kansa...<I>But still....this woman in a large suburb of Kansas City thought she could walk into a publicly funded library and find garbage like that.</I><BR/><BR/>I was going to say that I get annoyed when our public libraries here in the Boston area stock books by evangelical apologists, but at least we don't have the sort of thing you're talking about - then I checked the catalog online. One of the libraries in the system has Ken Ham's <I>Dinosaurs of Eden : a biblical journey through time </I> - here in the godless liberal Northeast. I'm appalled.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-3759370795340281202009-03-18T09:02:00.000-05:002009-03-18T09:02:00.000-05:00@cipher:I've encountered people wanting just that ...@cipher:<BR/><BR/>I've encountered people wanting just that kind of thing. I used to work in the children's area at a public library and I had a woman come up to me and ask me with a straight face where the creationist dinosaur books were. I told her we didn't buy books from those publishers. But still....this woman in a large suburb of Kansas City thought she could walk into a publicly funded library and find garbage like that. I'm sure its because her church had exactly the type of revisionist library you're talking about.Sparrowhawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520765821903563677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-10817155964738706822009-03-18T06:02:00.000-05:002009-03-18T06:02:00.000-05:00"... why spend years studying something only to en...<I>"... why spend years studying something only to end up with a degree that limits you to places that only represent your religion?"<BR/><BR/>To flatter themselves with the delusion that their religious beliefs are scientifically supported, a fact that the "atheist/materialist worldview" of "Big Science" is suppressing, you brave Christian martyr, you!</I><BR/><BR/>I'd add that they're also in the business of constructing a Christian parallel reality. Michelle Goldberg, in <I>Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism,</I> talks about going into libraries and bookstores in megachurches and seeing shelf after shelf of revisionist science and history books. Part of this process involves minting their own "experts".Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-32770095489249997512009-03-17T18:38:00.000-05:002009-03-17T18:38:00.000-05:00While these degrees may not be legitimate in the "...While these degrees may not be legitimate in the "real" scientific community, it gives these nut bags numbers when it comes to making a claim. "4000 scientists don't believe in the theory of evolution" or some garbage like that. Unfortunately many people are very impressed with numbers. <BR/><BR/>Since they got their ass beat in the Dover trial in trying to pass their snake oil creationism as science, they are now trying to infiltrate the scientific community. They probably feel that they can blur the line between pseudoscience and real science. Since most folks can't tell the difference, they're probably right. :PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31308150090502755242009-03-17T18:27:00.000-05:002009-03-17T18:27:00.000-05:00Agreed, now about those leprechauns...(Jokes aside...Agreed, now about those leprechauns...<BR/><BR/>(Jokes aside, Martin, is there an show post for the latest episode...?)TheBrainFromPlanetAroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04656561052157326830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-79518617301643003932009-03-17T15:46:00.000-05:002009-03-17T15:46:00.000-05:00Andrew T., MaxBro: Gentlemen, while we always appr...Andrew T., MaxBro: Gentlemen, while we always appreciate feedback on the TV show, either pro or con, the rule on the blog is to please keep comment threads on topic. Thanks.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17933545393470431585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-89339486207236908202009-03-17T14:58:00.000-05:002009-03-17T14:58:00.000-05:00Max: it's not really about offense -- it's about ...Max: it's not really about offense -- it's about prodding the Christian who believes in truly offensive things and has never been called on it.<BR/><BR/>Someone who thinks that 5/6ths of the planet deserves to be tortured for all of eternity simply because they don't attend <I>his</I> favorite church holds a monstrous belief. The only reason they aren't uncomfortable with holding such a belief is because it's perfectly acceptable (indeed, encouraged) for people to hold that monstrous belief in contemporary society. But that doesn't make the belief less monstrous.<BR/><BR/>As I note on my blog, I'm usually more in the "nice atheist" camp. But Jeff's exchange really opened my eyes and made me appreciate the value of a well-placed appeal to emotion in reaching out to a certain set of believers.Andrew T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07562402977211994270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-84258214184133268862009-03-17T12:52:00.000-05:002009-03-17T12:52:00.000-05:00"It's off topic, but I thought that the exchange b..."It's off topic, but I thought that the exchange between Jeff Dee and John over offense and Hell was incredibly interesting, and a really good illustration of the value of "aggressive atheism" (as opposed to "friendly atheism") -"<BR/><BR/>I disagree. I don't see what atheists gain by saying they are "offended" by Christians or any other religious types. Offense generally implies some kind of emotional reaction, and I think the emphasis must always be on the fact that atheists believe a religion is wrong based on the strong evidence against it. <BR/><BR/>For example, I'm not offended by the story of Noah's Ark, or by the people that believe it. But I can point to numerous reasons why the story can't be literally true. <BR/><BR/>Of course, if creationists are out there trying to force my kid to learn about Noah's Ark through one of their ID schemes, yes, that is something I would be offended at. But that's not the same as being offended at the belief by itself or in the believer. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, isn't offense typically the domain of religious types anyway due to its emotional aspect? Didn't the UK just pass a law saying its illegal to offend Islam? Aren't these Christians constantly harping on how our "depraved" and "immoral" culture offends their sensibilities? <BR/><BR/>I say let them have the emotional side, we'll keep the rational side.Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528578533082842112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76801697389948691262009-03-17T11:07:00.000-05:002009-03-17T11:07:00.000-05:00It's off topic, but I thought that the exchange be...It's off topic, but I thought that the exchange between Jeff Dee and John over offense and Hell was incredibly interesting, and a really good illustration of the value of "aggressive atheism" (as opposed to "friendly atheism") -- which is a longstanding debate in the atheist community. If you'll forgive the self-promotion, I blog about the exchange <A HREF="http://evaluatingchristianity.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/jeff-dee-and-appropriately-angry-atheism/" REL="nofollow">here</A>, which also includes an embedded YouTube video of the call.Andrew T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07562402977211994270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88955338991785747792009-03-17T11:02:00.000-05:002009-03-17T11:02:00.000-05:00I swear... if these bills pass, once i get my teac...I swear... if these bills pass, once i get my teaching credential finalized I'm going to teach me some FSM theology in my history classroom...<BR/><BR/>well, not really, because I would actually want students to learn real knowledge. But the bitter cynic in me really wants to.Eternal Critichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05079232411668840329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76605796608582376072009-03-17T09:22:00.000-05:002009-03-17T09:22:00.000-05:00Don't forget a PHD in HorriblenessDon't forget a PHD in HorriblenessBeamStalkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772110446629492132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17986223276279482252009-03-17T08:57:00.000-05:002009-03-17T08:57:00.000-05:00On the subject of "academic degrees", I went and s...On the subject of "academic degrees", I went and saw a guy named Frank Turek speak near me a month or so ago. Of course one of the first things the guy who introduced him said was that he had a "doctorate in apologetics" from Southern Evangelical Seminary. So I went to SES's own website and found <A HREF="http://www.ses.edu/Home/Accreditation/tabid/69/Default.aspx" REL="nofollow">this page</A>.<BR/><BR/><I>Degree programs of study offered by Southern Evangelical Seminary have been declared exempt from the requirements for licensure under the provisions of North Carolina General Statutes Section (G.S.) 116-15(d) for exemption from licensure with respect to religious education.</I><BR/><BR/>Cool! So, if you can manage to start a religious school in North Carolina, you can create masters/doctorate programs in...well, unless I'm understanding this wrong...pretty much anything you want.<BR/><BR/>Anyone wanna go in on this? I've got some pretty great ideas, such as:<BR/><BR/>- Master of the Universe (with internship at Greyskull)<BR/>- Doctor of Evil (with major in Villainy)<BR/><BR/>Any other ideas?Sparrowhawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520765821903563677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-1831648155551039592009-03-17T08:04:00.000-05:002009-03-17T08:04:00.000-05:00This reminds me of how Bush made sure that his var...This reminds me of how Bush made sure that his various faith-based programs were basically immune from the sort of federal oversight required of programs actually expected to work.vjackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05868095335395368227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-31241491220514671812009-03-17T06:58:00.000-05:002009-03-17T06:58:00.000-05:00The breaking point would occur when the money from...The breaking point would occur when the money from the big Christian Right Wing organizations runs out. As long as those operate economically sound, there will always be sufficient cash flow to secure the ICR's jobs. Imagine that, having a job that pays off well, is incredibly easy, and doesn't require any skills except occasionally spouting some rhetoric to convince kindergarten dropouts. Once you're in the system, you can spend all your time copy-pasting together colorful pictures with Bible verses and have them printed as 'articles' in your own 'scientific journal', phoning around the country to check out nice-sounding degrees to mailorder, and writing concerned letters to newspapers about how much you're being persecuted, and how that evil online atheist is trying to ruin your business because he hates God.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749925395851545703noreply@blogger.com