tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post1318629649550343121..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Austin Stone pastor writes in, dismisses Mark as "crazy"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17123296267355259982011-08-03T04:39:55.930-05:002011-08-03T04:39:55.930-05:00I, too, listen to Matt Carter's sermons on Hea...I, too, listen to Matt Carter's sermons on Heaven and Hell, and I was deeply disturbed by them. Not because I thought any of it was true, but because he managed to depict Christianity as a death cult. His message, almost verbaitm, was "live this life as though it doesn't matter." I encourage other athiests to give his sermons a whirl - he's actually very engaging.<br /><br />I don't mean this to sound hostile, but if that's really the way he and other Xians feel then they should lock themselves in a room and pray until they starve to death - if faith is the ONLY determining factor, you're in!<br /><br />His "Faith is the ONLY Way" sermon was far more interesting, not because of the content, but because of an omission: a while in I heard him say "I'll tell you why it [sacrifice of Jesus] was the only way [to expiate sin]..." and at that point I sat up straight: I've NEVER heard ANYBODY give an answer to this... and, lo and behold, neither did Matt C; he merely described WHAT happened, not WHY it had to be that way. If an ASC preacher does ever call in, I'd love to hear them explain why the only solution possible for the all-powerful creator of the universe was to transpose all past and future sin onto one person and then let them die.<br /><br />Finally, I really hope something positive comes out of Mike/Mark's church's ostracism of him - his conversation with Matt and Jen with the incredible "maybe I shouldn't listen to the Bible; maybe I should just trust myself" Eureka moment will live in my memory, and perhaps this repudiation by his church will be the proverbial straw.Mark UKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11718169028009955772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-4819995412846658152011-05-11T08:29:00.754-05:002011-05-11T08:29:00.754-05:00Whether or not he will read this, I would like to ...Whether or not he will read this, I would like to say:<br /><br />Congratulations Mark on your breakthrough realization! Think for yourself buddy :)<br />While this is a big step for you, you still have a few more steps to go in acheiving the freedom you deserve; but you're heading in a good direction.<br /><br />I'm hoping Mark continues to call in the coming weeks to let us know (whether directly or indirectly) how he's doing with the substantial progress he's made.Nicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03679672844151707797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-5464666664219711742011-05-09T21:05:29.804-05:002011-05-09T21:05:29.804-05:00I've listened to some of the sermons on the Au...I've listened to some of the sermons on the Austin Stone church website and they're disturbing. I actually feel pretty sorry for this guy, Mark.<br /><br />I was raised in a secular household in the UK, where we were all free to make our own decisions, so I have always had a bit of problem understanding how people can believe in something as intellectually vacuous as religion and god.<br /><br />I have found Mark, along with the ability to access the stuff he's being fed, a real insight into how people are brainwashed to believe in unbelievable things. It's actually scary, the preachers are so polished and the systems they operate in so slick, I reckon they could get these people to believe in anything.<br /><br /><br />Carl<br /><br />PS If I had my way, Matt Dillahunty would get a knighthood.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05948062570050296649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17835469039730742352011-04-21T20:21:52.451-05:002011-04-21T20:21:52.451-05:00Matt, I hope Mark keeps calling. It's clear th...Matt, I hope Mark keeps calling. It's clear the poor guy has been terribly brainwashed, yet he calls in. I feel like he is floundering, and like if he keeps talking to you he may actually begin to doubt, begin to think for himself.<br /><br />I don't think he is crazy. I think he is truly trying to figure this out but has been so abused by his church he can't do it on his own. At the least I hope he keeps watching the show.<br /><br />I'm not surprised the church is reacting this way. That belief is a mental illness is apparent in Mark. That the church is largely responsible, as well as his upbringing is also apparent.<br /><br />I do hope you get more calls from church people. You are always logical and diplomatic, always keep your cool. We appreciate you so much.<br /><br />The Atheist Experience is awesome, and I just wish it were on national TV. It deserves to be!<br /><br />DanaDana Nouriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12602448555164892228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-62115174422164879982011-04-21T13:32:04.841-05:002011-04-21T13:32:04.841-05:00"stephen zevon said...
just imagine - if this..."stephen zevon said...<br />just imagine - if this minister could be converted, the change that could take place for the entire congregation."<br /><br />Was I the only one who read this with the voice of Darth Vader in their head?Mark Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12082856602483276803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-86228325294475420212011-04-20T05:44:02.569-05:002011-04-20T05:44:02.569-05:00@ruinwen
You are right, It just seemed odd to me....@ruinwen<br /><br />You are right, It just seemed odd to me. Out of all the things to pull out of the bible to disagree with it seemed odd that it was that Leviticus quote he was against. Who knows, but that is what it sounded like to my untrained ear.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07242973177872175541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-33735497858724715782011-04-19T14:15:17.422-05:002011-04-19T14:15:17.422-05:00"stephen zevon said...
just imagine - if this..."stephen zevon said...<br />just imagine - if this minister could be converted, the change that could take place for the entire congregation. ~ 4/18/2011 3:21 PM"<br /><br />Me thinks you are too optimistic. Pastors who are unbelievers have been discussed on the show before, and many of them have to stay in the godless closet. Preaching is the only job 'skill' a lot of them have, and coming out would result in them loosing their livelihood. Aside from that point, I can only imagine a pastor stepping onto the ASCC's pulpit & preaching critical thinking & inquiry....<br /><br />"Good people of the Austin Stone, ignore the Chicago Statement & then read your bible. Try to see it as a nonbeliever would, and think critically about what it says. Begin to...hey, hey, hey! Dont throw the hymnals at me!"Apostuloushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15882838931979164053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-64070315412206234152011-04-19T12:36:58.790-05:002011-04-19T12:36:58.790-05:00New poster here, different than the Andrew above. ...New poster here, different than the Andrew above. I have to agree that either this guy is a complete poe, or that he's a kid from the church. At the end of the most recent call you can hear that the tone of his voice changes as he's hanging up the phone. <br /><br />Also, and I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, the callers Andrew(12/5/10-show#686), and Mike(1/23/11-show#693), sound very much like the same poerson (misspelling intended) with a bit of Southern accent added.<br /><br />I really only just started watching the show after Matt shellacked Mark on that episode in February (saw the clips on Jerry's, PZ's and RDF sites) and started watching previous episodes. As I had watched the aforementioned clip several time I had the voice fresh in my head. I started a list after a couple of times and then went back to check the previous instances, I think there maybe one or two more before he started using the moniker "Mark", but I need to check.<br /><br />On the other hand I may just be crazy.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08868255307020122518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-44530492920240655282011-04-19T12:21:23.038-05:002011-04-19T12:21:23.038-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08868255307020122518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17986245491136130112011-04-19T09:21:33.056-05:002011-04-19T09:21:33.056-05:00Mark doesn't need to be homosexual to disagree...Mark doesn't need to be homosexual to disagree with the churches view on homosexuality. To me it just sounded like he knew someone who was (a long time friend or a familymember maybe).ruinwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15340056766038134039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-71005847633114410772011-04-19T06:11:50.392-05:002011-04-19T06:11:50.392-05:00I think mark may be struggling with his sexuality ...I think mark may be struggling with his sexuality based on his last conversation on the show. He brought up the point he agreed that homosexuality isn't an abomination in his eyes. For a person to claim he is devout but struggles with that part most important to him, i think he may be coming to terms with his sexual identification. Not to be rude but he does have an effeminant sounding voice. That is only my opinion, most likely it isn't the case but that is what popped into my dumb mind listening to him talk.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07242973177872175541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-42184617620059579702011-04-18T17:27:41.437-05:002011-04-18T17:27:41.437-05:00Is Mark a POE? I don't know... but he has spen...Is Mark a POE? I don't know... but he has spent some time talking about the kids watching the show, and as you say - he is ill-equipped to handle arguments without prepapared statements - I can't escape the feeling that he is actually one of the very kids he was calling on behalf of...Andy of Australiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11043231484030190529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-89242295555513560782011-04-18T16:24:24.185-05:002011-04-18T16:24:24.185-05:00I also wanted to say that I know several people th...I also wanted to say that I know several people that attend ASCC. I'm actually pretty surprised to read on their website how fundamental and orthodox their mission statement is, because everyone I know from there has always struck me as very "universalist." Of course, when I say I know several people, I mean I know 4 or 5.Taylor Glen Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15546861494693873407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-27740815753046323392011-04-18T16:19:36.552-05:002011-04-18T16:19:36.552-05:00Hello everyone. Been reading for a while, first t...Hello everyone. Been reading for a while, first time posting. I missed the show but I just read the transcripts and I just wanted to throw my vote in that "Mike/Mark" is probably a Poe.Taylor Glen Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15546861494693873407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-57505785001862868072011-04-18T15:21:20.240-05:002011-04-18T15:21:20.240-05:00like one poster said, it would be a shame for ronn...like one poster said, it would be a shame for ronnie to become pissed off at atheists, and become even more set in his ways. <br /><br />just imagine - if this minister could be converted, the change that could take place for the entire congregation.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916910616086249596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-89103718180979537832011-04-18T00:51:11.125-05:002011-04-18T00:51:11.125-05:00Wow, where to begin.
I think Mark is the average ...Wow, where to begin.<br /><br />I think Mark is the average guy in the pew; he is merely reciting what the leaders tell him. You can hear the 'tag lines' (We're by the book, etc.) I have encountered many who are just like him, and they get totally flustered when you stray from the 'script'.<br /><br />The many calls from Mark show that he is desperately trying to fit in with the Stone, but inside knows that what he is saying sounds crazy (like when asked if he thought the world was 6000-10000 years old, or why he is a Christian). That means there is hope for the guy... if he can just get over the fear of letting go...scottandellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05889127833888939472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8290440657485450622011-04-17T13:22:32.700-05:002011-04-17T13:22:32.700-05:00I just got done reading the statement on biblical ...I just got done reading the statement on biblical inerrency. It's about what I expected. I do love how one of the articles in it, I dont have the document pulled up right now, was about how science essentially cant overturn the "truth" of scripture. That was a laugh and a half.<br /><br />Because, as we all know, that fuzzy feeling in your gut [apparently the holy spirit] overrides all evidence, observation, testing and demonstrability of claims. I mean, who needs all that stuff when you have god on your side?Apostuloushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15882838931979164053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-11712993291748618672011-04-17T11:08:22.662-05:002011-04-17T11:08:22.662-05:00I think "Mark" is actually an atheist tr...I think "Mark" is actually an atheist trying to point out how silly the SCC is but Poe's law and all that. In fact it seems really obvious to me that he's Poe'ning us.Mike Bethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07684740645243659226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-64431089153305402722011-04-17T09:54:02.826-05:002011-04-17T09:54:02.826-05:00I suggest people follow the link to Stone's we...I suggest people follow the link to Stone's website, with it's statement of faith and belief in Bible inerrency. That should answer a lot of questions as to what Ronnie believes...Mark Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12082856602483276803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-85225069482817844142011-04-17T06:18:08.958-05:002011-04-17T06:18:08.958-05:00This is probably a case of christian "bambooz...This is probably a case of christian "bamboozlemnet"<br /><br />Where they simply don't admit to outsiders what THEY really BELIEVE while constantly shifting the goal posts.Mathew Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14233314939784072583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52143759893405999572011-04-16T21:51:55.801-05:002011-04-16T21:51:55.801-05:00@Murphy
I kinda thought that was what you was goin...@Murphy<br />I kinda thought that was what you was going for, yet I hesitate to ascribe motive to the action. I didnt want to explicitly say it for fear of not getting a response from Ronnie for being so blunt. I am still hopeful that Ronnie will come back and attempt to explain why he felt that it was ok to throw his sheep under the bus for expressing the views his church espouses. <br /><br />Also, I just checked the ASCC website and he has at least a dozen sermons online. I may listen to a few of them; if so, I'm starting off with "Fearing and Fighting Unbelief" or "How to Share the Gospel". I am interested in his take on fighting unbelief. HeheheApostuloushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15882838931979164053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25955797875550465962011-04-16T21:27:52.718-05:002011-04-16T21:27:52.718-05:00@Apostulous
Yeah, I know. I've had the hell d...@Apostulous<br /><br />Yeah, I know. I've had the hell discussion with relatives and what not. Its a real point of cognitive dissonance for them, but they generally won't give any ground, preferring falling back on BS rationalisations like “Its not my fault you'll get tortured, its yours for turning your back on God” rather than admit our old friend God might be just a little bit of a sadistic monster...<br /><br />However that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that Ronnie has publicly chastised Mark for his comments about hell, when Ronnie believes (perhaps given his standing in the church, even publicly preaches) the exact same thing.<br /><br />My problem wasn't the specific belief in hell, so much as the fact that he's in a leadership position but hangs his own followers out to dry when it suits him for PR reasons, even though they're advocating exactly what he's taught them down to the letter. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that makes him the works kind of hypocrite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-87787907066757235802011-04-16T16:35:23.590-05:002011-04-16T16:35:23.590-05:00Lukas, I concur. I was trying to operate under th...Lukas, I concur. I was trying to operate under that idea with my post above.<br /><br />Murphy, you said in response to me "I think a better point than the fact atheist don't believe in hell, is the fact that Ronnie does believe it."<br />Just to let you know, I did raise the point that he probably believes this.<br />"Based on that, & the fact that you are a pastor in the church, it can be safely concluded that you believe most people are bound for hell. [Matt. 7:13]"<br /><br />I didnt pursue that point because I was hoping to understand why Ronnie was trying to distance himself from Mark, & arguments about hell tend to go nowhere. The concept of hell is a symptom of the cancer as a whole. The reasons why a person holds the beliefs they do is what Im really after.Apostuloushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15882838931979164053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-83829692623223668752011-04-16T15:28:56.067-05:002011-04-16T15:28:56.067-05:00A comment regarding Ronnie's appearance here:
...A comment regarding Ronnie's appearance here:<br /><br />I think it would be best to try to be courteous to him. I'm sure many of us has had unpleasant experiences with preachers in the past, as well as the experience of extending the benefit of the doubt to a believer and then getting shit all over.<br /><br />However, I think we must also endeavor to be the better man (or lady). How can we expect decent behavior of others if we don't make an effort ourselves.<br /><br />If Ronnie is a run-of-the-mill, lying faith-head, then I'm sure that will be apparent soon enough and then we can all have fun jumping up and down on his genitals. For the time being, though, I think we should be direct, but polite.<br />By all means ask the pointed questions, but try not to attribute motives to him that we don't really have any way of knowing about.<br /><br />After all, what if he really is one of the good guys? Wouldn't it be sad if we pissed him off and then missed out on an opportunity for a great AE show?<br /><br />Just my 74 cents (adjusted for inflation).Lukashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01844177654412625852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-375599035536803302011-04-16T12:53:44.381-05:002011-04-16T12:53:44.381-05:00Having listened to a few of the other calls that a...Having listened to a few of the other calls that are supposedly Mark using a pseudonym (including Ed, Andrew and Mike), I really don't think any of them are actually Mark. <br /><br />Yes the voice is similar and in some calls there are some similar phrases used (Mark and Mike in particular)<br /><br />But it still doesn't account for subtle accent differences and the different mannerisms. I mean, I suppose it could be an act where Mark calling as Mark breathes heavier/sighs, speaks slower and stumbles over his words while he speaks faster and puts together sentences more easily as Mike or Ed. But unless he's very good at carrying on a conversation AND staying in character, I think we are looking at different people.<br /><br />Keep in mind, atheist brains aren't any less prone to mind tricks. Just as theists pick out patterns and similarities in the clouds that look like angels and grill marks that look like grilled cheesus, I think people are trying too hard to look for similar voices to find that Mark is hiding something. <br /><br />When you consider that the show has probably gotten a few hundred male callers in the past couple years, its not surprising that a couple are going to sound similar to Mark. And since a fair number of calls are from Austin, its not unrealistic that two members of the same church that has a congregation of 8000 would have called and expressed similar views on religion.<br /><br />I would imagine the similar wording Mark and Mike used is probably just a matter that they are using Austin Stone buzz words. Its really not that hard to believe since Mark, at least, has so far only parroted the teachings of the church and hasn't actually shown that he is capable of thinking for himself on the matter. <br /><br />If Ronnie's still reading this, Welcome to the blog and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!Penny Costlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100523251079925953noreply@blogger.com