tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post1185526096796511851..comments2023-09-24T07:53:50.826-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Open thread on episode #702: Ray ComfortUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger113125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-80278925963080151542011-03-31T11:33:50.680-05:002011-03-31T11:33:50.680-05:00Comfort Ray's go-to argument for the existence...Comfort Ray's go-to argument for the existence of gawd is that he had an experience -- something something electric shock. You probed, but found the bottom right there at that 1-centimeter depth. <br /><br />Game over, Comfort Ray. Have a banana. That at least is an actual experience. <br /><br />Not that it would have mattered, really, but I wish you had pursued Comfort Ray's claim that science is useless because theories change over time. He wants to contrast this to the alleged changelessness of gawd, but that's risible on its face. Is there anything that has been subject to more schism, controversy, infighting, and hair-splitting than Christian doctrine over the last, oh, 2000 years? (If so, is that something anything other than a different religion's theology?) <br /><br />And it's not as though they've settled anything to this very day -- the claims they were killing each other for 1000 and 500 years ago are still as unsettled as they ever were. Round up 100 living Christians and question them closely and you won't get a consensus on more than a tiny handful of very general propositions.Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10523307255698594696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58245074604418074422011-03-28T20:29:43.401-05:002011-03-28T20:29:43.401-05:00What I can't get over is how Ray tried to equa...What I can't get over is how Ray tried to equate his position on abortion, which takes away any choice in the matter, with Matt's, that leaves the choice, whether to have an abortion or carry the child to term, up to the woman. How is saying "you can have a car any colour you like" <b>forcing</b> your view on someone, in the same way as saying "you can't have a car any colour but grey because I think any other colour is evil"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88038275826072242352011-03-28T14:03:17.384-05:002011-03-28T14:03:17.384-05:00Jeremiah, I know what you mean. The problem is tha...Jeremiah, I know what you mean. The problem is that these apologists seem to think it is either creation or evolution, which is clearly not the case.<br /><br />If evolution were disproved tomorrow, I would still not believe creationism, I would simply say 'I do not know'. I strongly suspect that I am not alone in this view.<br /><br />I'm sure most Creationist and Intelligent Deniers (er, Designers - Freudian slip, but I liked it so left it in ;)) understand this, but refuse to acknowledge it because their entire livelihood is based upon it.Afterthought_btwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17758975616219512727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-67926620828406223482011-03-28T13:27:49.642-05:002011-03-28T13:27:49.642-05:00JT said I saw them briefly on the stream before th...JT said I saw them briefly on the stream before the show officially started, and they seemed quiet and subdued. I can only imagine the pressure they were under. <br />Matt and/or Russell may disagree with me, but I suspect they were not feeling any pressure. All the hosts seem to thrive on this kind of discussion. They are confident in their knowledge and their ability to take on all callers. I would say they were looking forward to RC's call with eager anticipation, with a let's get at it, this is going to be fun attitude.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165347487205392523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-87368449813326811982011-03-28T11:25:34.315-05:002011-03-28T11:25:34.315-05:00From what I've seen, I'd say Ray has a ver...From what I've seen, I'd say Ray has a very simple mind:<br />Rule #1: The bible is right<br />Rule #2: Should the bible be wrong, apply rule #1<br /><br />Although I think the hosts did a fairly good job, there wasn't much ground to be made in the first place.harisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04231166847386414174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-15026514706899225562011-03-28T11:25:20.845-05:002011-03-28T11:25:20.845-05:00Glad to see Ray's bit about "common sense...Glad to see Ray's bit about "common sense" has already been shot down multiple times above. It is what stuck out the most for me.<br /><br />Overall great show! I hope you will have more shows like this, interviews with believers that is.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791359210633134794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17258003385771167702011-03-28T11:20:59.990-05:002011-03-28T11:20:59.990-05:00Bacteria are asexual.
This is why it's so ha...<i>Bacteria are asexual. <br /><br />This is why it's so hard to nail down the definition of "species", because the one they gave cannot work on asexual creatures.</i><br /><br />I actually kind of let this one slide, since some bacteria at least have organelles that can be used in gene transfer. I do kind of wish someone had called Ray on his statement to the effect that only worms and slugs reproduce asexually. Asexual reproduction is all over the place (with mammals and birds being notable exceptions as far as we know) - fish, insects, and even reptiles all have asexually-reproducing representatives. And on the other hand you have tons of organisms for whom sex determination is not genetic but rather environmental or a function of age or of something else, and there are even things like certain slime molds that effectively have more than two sexes.Eyedunnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02142092092337330250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-52005199325628588422011-03-28T10:27:24.841-05:002011-03-28T10:27:24.841-05:00Well, watched the Comfort debate last night and wh...Well, watched the Comfort debate last night and while it was good overall I did come away disappointed in one regard, and this seems to happen in every serious debate with theists in that it was too defensive. It seems like most of the debate gets stuck trying to defend science. <br /><br />He throws out all these claims about "prove evolution" and so on. Then much time is spent offering defenses of evolution. It might be a good defense, but it is still defense. The appearance is that Ray is "winning" because all this time is going toward defending something that is really only of marginal importance to the existence of god while he does nothing but try to poke holes in it. I think with things like evolution, defending every little point isn't important in this context, it only matters that evolution is a 'better' explanation than creation, not that it is perfect and it is important to keep contrasting it with the weaknesses of the creation position to illustrate that whatever faults our position might have the other has them as well (ex nihlo creation scenarios) or that they have even worse faults. In short, don't defend evolution, only defend the fact that it is a superior choice to creationism. Sometimes things get too lost in the weeds and just becomes about defending science and not about existence of god at all.<br /><br />Not trying to be critical, you guys do an awesome job, (I would have been miserable in the same situation for sure) but I think that debates with theists almost always end up looking good for the theist because of stuff like this.Jeremiahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06977623156609966553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30383472468467399392011-03-28T09:52:41.198-05:002011-03-28T09:52:41.198-05:00I only watched about 10 minutes of ths one and I&#...I only watched about 10 minutes of ths one and I'm a huge fan of AETV. Ray **does not care** about his statement making sense or if he is wrong. He is really dishonest and that makes auguments/discussions with Ray really pointless.Andy McBridehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00395270001092148767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-12126051382140495852011-03-28T09:51:52.157-05:002011-03-28T09:51:52.157-05:00I doubt any of you would actually have been able t...<i>I doubt any of you would actually have been able to do as well as Matt and Russell, to say nothing of doing a better job.</i><br /><br />I saw them briefly on the stream before the show officially started, and they seemed quiet and subdued. I can only imagine the pressure they were under.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-82731811625160085382011-03-28T09:50:25.778-05:002011-03-28T09:50:25.778-05:00I'll also add that the whole bacteria discussi...I'll also add that the whole bacteria discussion Ray was deeply confused about.<br /><br />Bacteria are asexual. <br /><br />This is why it's so hard to nail down the definition of "species", because the one they gave cannot work on asexual creatures.<br /><br />It could be that we need a different definition per Kingdom.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-55262902594591164462011-03-28T09:41:58.696-05:002011-03-28T09:41:58.696-05:00To everyone saying they would have handled it this...To everyone saying they would have handled it this way and that way: it's really easy to armchair quarterback this event after the fact, but watching a conversation and being in one are two totally separate experiences. <br /><br />I doubt any of you would actually have been able to do as well as Matt and Russell, to say nothing of doing a better job.The Invisible Pink Unicornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01230632351002748527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30133302812915571372011-03-28T08:56:50.004-05:002011-03-28T08:56:50.004-05:00I was just about to go to bed at 11 last night unt...I was just about to go to bed at 11 last night until I saw a post on FB about RC being on TAE. I immediately queued up the show, grabbed a snack and headphones, got comforable, and prepared for a much anticipated hour of entertainment. I was not disappointed. Sure there were times I may have hammered a point more or dropped it sooner, but who the fuck cares. If I had my choice of who I wanted to school Ray, I wouldn't have changed a thing. Nice job guys! Possibly the best show ever! Keep it up. Also, thank you for showing me what critical thinking is and how important it can be.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02299725421488628764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-39017305863351163052011-03-28T07:35:20.154-05:002011-03-28T07:35:20.154-05:00Looks like Matt has become a new Rage Face meme.
...Looks like Matt has become a new Rage Face meme.<br /><br />http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/gcq1m/the_atheist_experience_702_guest_ray_comfort/c1mm9e5<br /><br />And the circle of life is complete.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17668530650832303059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76855810881729541022011-03-28T07:04:23.714-05:002011-03-28T07:04:23.714-05:00מיכאל,
Ray is in a catch-22 situation there. If he...מיכאל,<br />Ray is in a catch-22 situation there. If he constructs an analogy that involves anything real, observable and testable, he can't use it as an analogy for the untestable salvation by an invisible guy after death.<br />Basically he'd have to use things that don't exist as more than abstracts, and then the analogy wouldn't convey anything but word salad.<br /><br />His analogies have nothing but the purpose of stoking the fear of death and punishment, which is the exact same sauce tyrants were serving fifty thousand years ago. Calling it "the parachute analogy" doesn't change the recipe. Religious faith comes in when you're stuck in an emotional trap, and preachers try their best to convince you you're totally helpless without their services.Felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05941516348248086143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-82977692123666266142011-03-28T07:01:39.085-05:002011-03-28T07:01:39.085-05:00Just listened to the podcast and thoroughly enjoye...Just listened to the podcast and thoroughly enjoyed it. Matt and Russell did a pretty good job. Glad to see that it all stayed very civil.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569412818546400042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-46132270088062127452011-03-28T06:53:24.857-05:002011-03-28T06:53:24.857-05:00That was fun. It was hard to count the number of f...That was fun. It was hard to count the number of fails that RC provided...Hairy Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11447200409981332335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-6207995222001385972011-03-28T06:07:23.936-05:002011-03-28T06:07:23.936-05:00Correction: I wouldn't say that we're athe...Correction: I wouldn't say that we're atheists <i>due to</i> common sense, as much as it makes sense to us. We have other more justified reasons for disbelieving.JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-33091182795157524962011-03-28T06:00:02.612-05:002011-03-28T06:00:02.612-05:00It seemed like his argument for how to "prove...It seemed like his argument for how to "prove" the god was an appeal to common sense.<br /><br />... which is odd, given that so many of us are atheists because of common sense.<br /><br />Common sense says that there's global time, and not different time frames like general relativity shows.<br />Common sense says that satellites should fall back to the Earth.<br />Common sense says that the world is flat.<br /><br />There's plenty about the universe, and how it works, that's anti-intuitive. If I were to spend my entire life inside a room, it would be "common sense" to me that the universe has a ceiling. It's what we're used to (common).<br /><br />If he's going to choose something as a basis for demonstrating his god, he should pick something a little more reliable and a little less subjective than "common sense".JThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881036419280903737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-29695052569286649932011-03-28T04:40:31.116-05:002011-03-28T04:40:31.116-05:00@Brent I just don't get the analogy. The parac...@Brent I just don't get the analogy. The parachute is obviously religious belief. But what is the airplane? Is it the earth? Comfort remarks about "the age of the airplane" imply that's the case. So, the plane is about to crash- the earth is about to be destroyed? And religious belief will allow us to leave the earth?<br /><br />In that case, what does the age of the airplane or the earth has to do with anything? It seems that his whole point is that the age of the earth doesn't interest him as far as his religious belief or his rejection of evolution. I can understand that, but still the Airplane analogy is nonsensical since it focuses on the parachute rather then the irrelevancy of the age question. Does he think that we don't want his parachute because he wont commit to an estimate of the age of the plane? I'm trying to make sense of it, but it seems that it's just a poorly built analogy.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11896998401370897319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14584516665482176982011-03-28T04:36:17.378-05:002011-03-28T04:36:17.378-05:00Oooh, looking forward to listening to this one at ...Oooh, looking forward to listening to this one at work today... :-)Hairy Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11447200409981332335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-12049443159255567432011-03-28T04:31:00.869-05:002011-03-28T04:31:00.869-05:00My favourite part, hands down, would have to have ...My favourite part, hands down, would have to have been when he said he doesn't believe in science, because he doesn't want to take things on faith...Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06754135739765388167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-13803441745144536452011-03-28T03:35:12.614-05:002011-03-28T03:35:12.614-05:00@JT "Some peoples' circular logic loops s...@JT "Some peoples' circular logic loops so large that from their perspective, it appears to be a flat line."<br /><br />Sorta like the surface of the earth =P<br /><br />Anyway, the show annoyed me as ray just obfuscated the issues making red herring after red herring until the time conveniently ran out.daemonownerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07046684417164423546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-60943194849398512942011-03-28T03:33:01.388-05:002011-03-28T03:33:01.388-05:00For the airplane analogy, it's more like he is...For the airplane analogy, it's more like he is telling you he will cut the engines, and won't give you the parachute if you don't agree to kiss his feet forever. He's creating the problem and then offering you the solution. Then you look around and realize, he can't cut the engines, and there was never a 'chute anyways.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06414147512377854555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-6056636496785260732011-03-28T03:26:54.945-05:002011-03-28T03:26:54.945-05:00@Martin, I like the sand analogy. God can take the...@Martin, I like the sand analogy. God can take the time to create each grain of sand, but he can't make us, his prized possesions, pets, chosen ones, whatever we are viewed as, completely unique. We aren't the only species that uses tools, solves puzzles, has compassion. That was something I thought about as a kid. We're so special, but he didn't do anything to show us what made us different.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06414147512377854555noreply@blogger.com